Rusty's not very quiet cuda progress

OK I'm a dumb ass, stopped buy to pay my mechinic (still didn't make up the bill I think I'm in trouble with that!)[smilie=2: But talked to a couple of the guys & there it was, the high idle, gotta really look for that damn screw, lowererd that did a rough setting on the mixture, set the base idle & Off I went.
I'm (we're) heading in the right direction, with adjustment all the way back she's shifting a little later, still early but not as bad, under a little more throttle the clunk on shifts goes away, got some other vibrations & rubbing noises under the floor boards, but not drive train related(well not directly)
Another thing I forgot to mention is we (340 bros & I) had to pull the adjustable pinion snubber, (thanks for noticing Don)it was resting against the floor, prev.owner had air shocks, so now I need to trade for a stock one(charger man may have one, he just put in a dana 60:toot:)
Think I might ditch the carb spacer if it 's not clearence necessary, 3/8 or so more can't hurt , then maybe bend out the rod a bit, last case rape the 74 again & take that one!
Gettin there:giggedy:(without a tranny rebuild-at least for now) Rich.
 
Last edited:
Well I'd say you have a vacuum leak somewhere, that's why the vacuum is all over the place and the car won't stay running when in gear.

As for the white wire, if there is a spot on the newer eddy's electric choke for the ground then you should have one. Sometimes they are grounded through the body of the electric choke and don't need an additional ground, just hook a 12V ignition power and go.
 
As for the carb spacer, these carbs are notorious for boiling the fuel when you shut them off. Never mount the carb only using a thin gasket. The correct gasket is almost 1/4 inch thick and has plastic spacers in the 4 bolt holes. They can be a little difficult to locate. Maybe doc can come up with a part #.
 
Ok, I'll look for that if I have to change it out,might still give me improved angle over the 3/8" one with a gasket on top, thanks 68.Edit- you can see how thick the one they have on is in the pick, you think it's worth changing out?
Now for todays adventure.......... 1st I checked that brake fitting & it seems to be dry where I saw the leak, no more fluid on the rail & I drove it around quite a bit last night, maybe it was just the remaining fluid in between the line & the spring cover??? I hopin I'm done with that(Pedal is firm & doesn't give when I really lean on it.) would be :cool:
Then i played with the kickdown, had to take some adjustment out of the rod to have it all the way foward at idle, that in turn put pressure against the nut I was using to shorten the rod that goes to the carb, took out the nut & tension was released, so close (actually the far end of the rod) I can't use a fat nut, so I welded the rod & drilled out the hole & all seems good cept the tipping bar is NOT perfectly straight up at idle, slightly back, but I now have instant movement when you start to accellerate & I'm 99% sure it's full open when the throttle is the same.
Now I just need someone else there to check if I have full throttle when I mash the peddle!:shifty:
Can't get her out till tonight they are paveing my street this week!:mad: Rich.
linkagethrottle-kickdowncorrection005.jpg
 
Last edited:
One of the tricks the six pack guys use is a piece of tape attached to the throttle aligned with the blade so when you stomp the pedal you can visualize just where the blade is.
 
That gasket looks good, as far as thickness. But now about that vacuum plug on the rear of the carb. Do hardware store bolts come in a pipe thread? :doh:
 
:wtf: On there when I got it, guess I have another job to do :toot:
Mixed results on the test drive, I think it's still shifting early ventured a little further & got on a road where I could gun it a little, let the traffic clear & slowed down to 20ish, nailed it & she took off pretty good, did downshift but she hit 6 grand & i'm not sure if it shifted just as I let off or shifted because I let off. One of you guys said it should shift around 5,is that hard or full accelleration? I think I'm gonna need someone who knows what the hell their doing to get this baby to run right.
Just some basic info needed, what is the red line on these motors, I was parinoid to keep going & wait for the shift.
I think I was at 50 55 mph, was watching the tach more than the speedo?
gonna grab some java & start reading the tech book! :dgt: Yea I know just get myself in more trouble! :shifty: Rich.
 
Bolt is out plug is in, luckily they didn't ram it in but 3 threads,tap went in smooth by hand!:) gonna bust charger mans chops on that one, but when a guy gives you an almost brand new carb for free how much can you bust him! :(
Cleaning up that rod for paint now, put her back together tommorrow!
 
When you swapped carbs, did you also swap intakes? If not, you didn't attempt to re-use the base gasket from the Holley, did you? It would explain your vacuum leak, or at least part of it. People always try to re-use those thick gaskets; it should never be done, particularly when changing carb designs as the various vacuum passages on the bottom of the carb vary wildly between carb makes.

The gasket you should be using is as 68R/T described... with today's crappy fuel you want some heat insulation under the carb. Fel-Pro makes it (I stock it) but I don't know the number off the top of my head. Also, per Edelbrock, you want the four-hole variety, not the open-plenum design. Edelbrock's reason for this is an improvement in velocity and fuel atomization. If you want to run a thinner gasket, there's a GM part number for a factory gasket/heat-shield combination gasket used on old Corvettes. Someone else makes it as well--I was surprised to see it in one of my catalogs, but I can't recall who it was at the moment.

Actually, with an electric choke I'd suggest blocking the heat crossover entirely at the cylinder-head/intake mating surface. Since you won't be winter driving, you'll never miss it.

Regarding the kickdown linkage's angle: Even with it all the way back at full throttle, I think the angle's going to affect your line pressure at part throttle. It might be slight, but I'd really rather see that sucker level as is factory. Even though some upward travel is normal with the linkage on a factory setup, with your angle involved it's still lifting more than it's pushing in the right direction for some of the throttle's travel. I think I'd have lengthened that C-shaped pivot rod at the back of the throttle slider, spaced it, or heated and bent the throttle slider before I would have welded and redrilled it.

Kickdown linkage has always been a nightmare for Mopar guys with aftermarket intakes. Yet another reason I love manual transmissions. :D Seriously, the geometry of that linkage is critical to both the proper operation and the longevity of the transmission.

Clunk: did you put new motor mounts in the beast? The driver's side motor mounts are notorious for tearing. It might be the engine jumping around. Freddy broke several LH motor mounts in his '74 318 Trout when we were kids (it was a pretty-hot 318, but still...). I tore no less than 4 in my Six Pack Charger. DynaTech's MityMounts are a great investment; I was never able to break one in The Black Bitch, and I beat that car like a rented red-headed step-goat. They're only sold in pairs and I think I still have the right-side mount new in the box. I never installed it, just put in the LH side and was golden. They're not inexpensive, but they're well worth the price. EFI Ed's not broken one on his stroker-engined beast and the same set's been in that car since '97.

Redline: this is a 340? I used to pound my 340 cars, shifting them as high as 7,800RPM without ever hurting either one. 7,200RPM was my normal shift point on my '73 Charger with 135,000+ miles--going by my AutoMeter tach. I was a little more gentle with the '73 Challenger--that one I think I shifted around 6,800RPM after I learned it was still pulling like a freight train well after the factory-indicated redline of 5K. One thing you have to remember: the factory redline was dictated by the fact that even Hemi cars had a powertrain 12/12K (months/miles) warranty. Everything else was 5 years/50K miles... if you tell the new owner the engine will scream to 6,500 he's gonna try it, enjoy it, and repeatedly do it. :D If your trans shifts by itself anywhere between 5K and 6K, you're fine and the governor doesn't need to be replaced. If it's below 5K, the governer's lo-performance passcar or more likely truck stuff and should be replaced.

One thing to remember about non-shift-kit Torqueflites: under full throttle, they consider a change of shifter position more a suggestion than a command. :D They do not respond instantaneously. My experience with them tells me they shift anywhere from 500-800RPM higher than when you moved the lever. Bashing the Slap Stik in my '73 Charger 340 at 6,600RPM was how I got it to shift in the neighborhood of 7,200RPM. They're all different, though... you have to learn your trans. A shift kit, flinging the accumulator spring, and upping the line pressure to max will get you a transmission that's screeching the rear tires before the Slap-Stik's ratchet action even lets off. Of course, you need a properly-functioning kickdown linkage for that to happen, too. ;)
 
[smilie=2: Bout 3/4 of that just flew over my head!:doh:
Motor is a 360
K, I'm an a/c tech, as far as cars go I'm little more than a parts changer, I can dope out some things, with some direction maybe go a little deeper, common sense is maybe my best asset, now with that said here's where I'm at........
Motor mounts are solid(already thinkin of ditching those) tranny mount is new.
Clunk almost 100% sure it's on the shifts,noisier on the low to 2nd shift, lighter on the 2 to 3 shift.
under a little more throttle it seems to go away.
Carb, well I did reuse the fat one, but put the new skinny black gasket on top when I switched to the first eddy, same 2 still there on this eddy to eddy switch.
The vacumm wonder went away when I adjusted the high idle down,carb runs pretty good now, I pulled a plug today expecting a black mess, it was pretty clean, a tanish color on the electrode a little carbon up near the threads.
I was running lean last night,opened em up a little for tonights test,plug pulled after that.
With all the other noises I'm hearing(think my exhaust is too close to the frame & floor) I need some trained ears to pick out whats important, I'll keep dicking with it, see if I can get greg or don over again to help diagnose it & get the settings closer! Thanks Rich.
 
OK common sense may kill what I thought was a common sense solution, k so I've been thinkin again,[smilie=2: so here's my thought.
In being so close to the end of that rod to the carb am I defeating it's purpose in that all these rods i've seen all have that long gap, so on release of the gas pedal the throttle will close but the rod will hang free, the way I ended up now the rod will be pulled back by the carb linkage, so whats that gonna do to the tranny downshift adjustment, if it has it's own pace for returning to the foward position:confused: Rich.
 
Personally I would look more at the safety factor involved. If anything should cause the trans linkage to bind, it could cause the carb to stay in an open-throttle position. [smilie=2:[smilie=f:
 
Todays test drive was useless, been raing here 3 days now,I think she's still shifting early, gonna se If I can crawl under & check the band adjustment bolt, maybe they screwed with that.
Gotcha 68, if I can get all else to work then all I need to do is make a longer rod with an extended slot.
Jass, I looked at the throw on the throttle, with the adaptor it does not arc much at all. this early shift in drive is killin me!
 
Tried adjusting the kickdown band adjustment, what a pain that is under the car, hope I got it right , tought gettin one nut to move without the other, but to no avail, just seems to be shifting right into drive on easy starts!:(
 
The band adjustment won't change the shift points... those are governed solely by the line pressure, the throttle-valve position, shift-control valve springs and the (you guessed it) governor. The line pressure you can adjust, the throttle valve must be adjusted correctly (again, if it's all the way back at WOT, you're good). You can do nothing about the shift-control springs or governor adjustability-wise, you can only replace parts--the shift-control springs or the inner and outer governor weights with lighter or heavier ones. A fella named John Veatch used to make all kinds of Mopar governors, but after a little searching I couldn't find anything about that. He may have handed off to A&A Transmissions. They have quite the assortment of governors (as well as shift-control valve springs)

Where does it shift let in drive at full throttle? If it's below the near-5,000RPM range, it's likely you've got a truck trans in there. If you've got stock or higher-than-stock line pressure and the kickdown linkage is all the way back under full throttle, you can mess with it until you're blue in the face. You'll never get it where you want it without tweaking the governor... period.
 
What does it do then?
K, only that once was I at a place (with dry roads) that I could slow down to 20ish, then I mashed it, it did kick down & was at 6000 rpm when I had to let off, doing bout 50-55 watchin the tack more than the speedo, now just as i let off it shifted, was the question from the other day about the redline, so I'm not sure weather it shifted then I let off or it shifted because I let off.need a bigger road for these tests.
Now I have another question, if I drive locally or anywhere for that matter, are these quick shifts & being in drive at rediculously low speeds gonna hurt anything, for the time being if it is doing damage to the tranny will I save it by just manual shifting all the time, that will save me spending money on that now, I need a steering box & a rear main seal, both leaking pretty bad & a lot of play in the gear box(I am going to try & adjust that tomorrow,if it works I will then attempt a new seal, leaving the engine seal as the big job keeping me off the road.
 
The bands alternately hold and release the drums inside the transmission. Proper adjustment will ensure how quickly the transmission will change gears, the firmness of the shift, and how well the trans holds gears. Improper adjustment allows the drums to slip, causing a lot of extra heat and the band linings to fade. It will affect fuel mileage as well due to wasted energy. It is crucial, but it will not affect the RPM at which a shift happens.

If leaving the car in drive allows for a 6K upshift, someone's been in the governor. I've only seen that in modified transmissions and Max Wedge/Race Hemi cars. If you're using the factory tach, I'd suggest tossing in an aftermarket unit to verify the readings as it's strange to have low part-throttle shifts and WOT shifts up the stratosphere like that. However, as I recall most of if not all of my Torqueflite cars were in 3rd gear by 20-23MPH under light-throttle conditions.

Your comment about the slider at the throttle got me to thinking. Then I stopped, and I just started again. :D

As I recall, the slider should be all the way forward at rest--meaning the throttle stud should be touching the rear of the slider's slot. It's been too long since I looked or thought about it, but the return spring for the kickdown linkage (depending on application) was either down on the transmission or between the kickdown linkage and the throttle stud. Looking at your setup, you've not only got issue with that ridiculous angle--it needs to be corrected, period--but it appears your kickdown linkage is either mismatched or just flat-out wrong for the application. In virtually every application of which I can think, that linkage is different between not only engines but carburetion: A 318-4V uses different linkage than a 318-2V in the same year and model. Why? The primary throttle shaft on a two-barrel engine is something like an inch or more forward of the primary throttle shaft on a four-barrel. Also, a four-barrel intake is generally of significantly higher-rise than a two-barrel intake. The throttle cables between 2V and 4V applications are always different as well, for the same reason.

Now look again at your setup. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you've got 318-2V linkage there. The throttle-cable stud on a 2V would be considerably further forward than where your 4V is, and though your intake isn't all that ridiculoulsy high the 2V intake would be much lower... generally, the 2V intakes barely stick up above the valvecovers if at all.

I believe we have a bingo... and I could be 100% wrong. I don't think I am, though.

When I replaced the stock 2V intake and carb on Lumpy's old 318 Fifth Ave with an Edelbrock Performer and an 800 ThermoQuad, I had to use the kickdown linkage from my '85 Gran Fury 318-4V. There was simply no way to make the stock linkage work with the essentially-stock-height (for a 4V intake) aftermarket manifold and the ThermoQuad.

My suggestion is to find a complete kickdown linkage from one car, any small-block 4V will work regardless of whether it's correct for your application. It still may need a little tweaking, but it's going to be a lot closer to working correctly right out of the gate. And again, check your line-pressure adjustment to make sure it's either stock or higher (meaning the adjustment screw's further out of the plate). I'm guessing it's fine, though. A full-throttle shift point that high with the transmission left in drive tells me it's not a governor or shift-spring issue.

I'm going to stop thinking for the time being. :D
 
Well I have the 74 360 4V real live 'Cuda sitting right next to her, guess she's gonna be about gutted before the 73 hits the road. I should have some time tomorrow to switch it out, I went over the settings & the throttle movement as she stands now & I'd almost bet money it's got full swing,foward at idle & back at WOT.
But for my sanity I'll hook up the linkage & mounting bracket from the 73(they are different) just to see if that makes any difference.
Funny thing is when I switched carbs the 74's linkage was more perfect with the 73's carb(pic's a page or two back) the with the newer eddy I had on there! why couldn't it have been reversed, perfect oon the 73! yep, Rusty's luck, or lack there of!

Again, solid motor mounts, the engine work done, this guy was setting up to race, I'm sure he did something to the tranny, not knowing what is the bad part.
It HAD NO kickdown linkage at all, I got that setup of ebay, supposed to be for a 360 4v but you know how that goes!

Oh yea, there is a small return spring down by the lever on the tranny, I also had one at the carb, it broke off yesterday, will get another even if it's only a backup, if one broke, someday the other will too! Rich.
 
Last edited:
Ordered motor mounts, rebuilt steering box is available,gonna go out & try & adjust the play now,if it works I'll get a shaft seal if not I might as well get the rebuilt unit.
I know your gonna rip me a new one for this, but I'm also getting the crap to try & seal the rear main, for a few bucks even if it only delays getting the new seal it will give me a chance to work out some of the other bugs before I start tearing the car apart again! Rich.
 

SiteLock

SiteLock
Back
Top