Rusty's not very quiet cuda progress

[RUSTY Cuda]

Sorry missed the when I'm feeling better.Hope it's soon! Here's a copy & paste
Jason Erkkila
November 21 at 8:09 PM ·

There will ba a Celebration of Life for Pierre this Saturday the 23rd at Bob and Jerry's from 1-5pm (they close at 6). Who ever would like to stop by and reminisce about Pierre

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

My lord, wouldn't le the copy of the hole post go through there's a lot of responses.

Chrissy Kaub replied
2 Replies
Bessie King-Brightman
Wish I could be there but my thoughts and prayers will be with all of you. Loved when he would harass me but sure will miss homemade salad dressing he would share with me.



Dan Demboski
Have a date with our Grand daughter in Green Bay but will do our best to get back before the end.
November 21 at 8:09 PM ·
There will ba a Celebration of Life for Pierre this Saturday the 23rd at Bob and Jerry's from 1-5pm (they close at 6). Who ever would like to stop by and reminisce about Pierre is more than welcome.

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All reactions:

52Bruce Lozinsky, Shane Hansen and 50 others​

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

OH well I tried, maybe you can search Jason?

 

[b-body-bob]

OH well I tried, maybe you can search Jason?

OK thanks.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

So I checked on putting in a pressure reducer in the line, that we can do,
He doesn't think it's the problem it holds in the line when car is off, but I'm thinking what does it do when running???
Looking into adjustable rockers, they are expensive, & this idiot junked them.
None show it as a kit with push rods, I hope we don't end up going there.

Car still didn't get to the alignment machine, all the other little things are done!

 

[b-body-bob]

Looking into adjustable rockers, they are expensive, & this idiot junked them.
None show it as a kit with push rods, I hope we don't end up going there.

My advice is to forget about that. Why do you think you need adjustables? Remember if the intake valve was hanging open you would get back pressure through the carb, low compression readings, and if the intake valve was open when ignition happens, it would burn the intake valve too.

But if you're dead set on adjustables, I'll give you the same advice Jass gave me - buy a set of 273 adjustable rockers, make sure they have the banana groove shafts included, then measure your pushrod length and order those. Making a pushrod measuring tool is easy-peasy if you get the original too long pushrods for the 273 in the deal or I'll send you the one I made.

He also did a compression test, his #'s were quite a bit lower than I had gotten??????

I didn't find those #'s anywhere but could have missed them. What did he get for compression? To my weak mind it seems that if the intake valve is open on the compression stroke you would have zero.

This latest problem is based on a number from an exhaust sniffer showing it's running rich sitting in the repair bay, right? How does it actually run down the road once it's warmed up?

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

I didn't post His compression #'s, mine were all in the low 170's with 1 165, when he showed me his, they were quite a bit lower.
We talked about that, his contention was it's an older motor that was sitting for 10 plus years, as it ran more it would go down, He wasn't concerned about what He read.
I'll see if he still has the list he did write it down?

The vacuum problem seems to have gone away, He's getting 15 at idle, maybe my 60 year old gauge was bad?

He says it runs better with rpm's up, as it is now it's setting off the alarms in the shop with doors open & fans running!

Don't know about the road, I drove it about 1 city block to get there, He's right around the corner.
When I pick it up I will hit the gas station to fill it up & see if my gas gauge is even close. I'll drive it around the hood & see what it feels like, now will I remember what it should feel like, I don't know?

After I do that, when I pull the valve covers to test for slack in a couple of push rods I'll pull a plug & see what it looks like, when it was just mostly idling before they were black & nasty!

Any good places to order the 273's & pushrods?

Gonna google them now.

 

[b-body-bob]

Any good places to order the 273's & pushrods?

You will need to find them used, but the pushrods will need to be measured and special-ordered.

If it was me I would just stay with the stock rocker hardware. I wanted to use them on the new engine but they didn't play nice with the larger-sized Edelbrock valve springs. Neither did the 273 rockers but I was able to grind them for clearance. I didn't think grinding on those stamped non-adjustable rockers was a good idea so I just set those aside.

If the lifters bleed off, you will definitely be able to turn the pushrods. For those lifters sitting off the cam base circle (in process of opening or closing) you may or may not be able to turn them so focus on the ones that are completely closed.

 

[b-body-bob]

Any good places to order the 273's & pushrods?

You will need to find them used, but the pushrods will need to be measured and special-ordered. The ones that came with those rockers from the factory are all for a solid lifter which is shorter than hydraulics so the push rods are too long. IIRC they are 7-1/2" and for the record I ended up with 7-1/8" pushrods.

If it was me I would just stay with the stock rocker hardware and focus on the carb. I wish I lived closer because we would figure this out or get drunk trying ;D

If the lifters bleed off, you will definitely be able to turn the pushrods. For those lifters sitting off the cam base circle (in process of opening or closing) you may or may not be able to turn them so focus on the ones that are completely closed.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

I was thinking to have him put in a pressure regulator to get down to 5, to eliminate that as a possible problem, a lot of the post's I googled about these carbs say they don't like over 5 1/2.
Mine is 7 1/2 stock fuel pump.
He doesn't think that's the problem because it holds pressure after shut down, but I'm wondering what it does when running & there's vacuum sucking on it, He set the floats at minimum.

I did find a couple of sets of 273's, none had pushrods, looks like 250 ish will go out if I have to buy those.
In 40 pages of ebay I only found 2 sets of ball & cup pushrods
Isky 7.531" part# 3903 for 200
& a set on amazon didn't write down brand or price but they were 7.324"

I think I will call summit racing just to pick brains, cheapest set they had was 3 & change, aluminum but maybe they can help on what pushrods will to get???

Hmmmm forgot about Jerry Stein, he may have them & even some more ideas on what the problem is?

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

Oh yea I saw 273 sets for big block & small block are they different or are they just saying what they came out of?

 

[b-body-bob]

273 rockers are small block. It's the engine size they were installed on from the factory.

IIRC Doc explained the 7.5 vs. 7.3 measurement and it's one is the overall length, the other is to the bottom of the cup. Neither one will work. Mine are 7.125 to the bottom of the cup.

I agree about the fuel pressure. I saw the same thing. If you didn't get the full user's manual with the carb when you bought it https://www.edelbrock.com/media/wysiwyg/documents/carb-owners-manual.pdf

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

K as I was going around the block for some dinner we saw the car driving the other way, so I'm hoping that means alignment is done & I didn't get a call so hopefully no problems with that.

After I told him to get the pressure regulator & install that just to try & eliminate one possible problem, I got a call later, he found one local & said he actually liked my idea & is hoping it will show some positive results.
Was gonna try & get it in today, but it was already late & no call yet, this is about how late they go, not sure with the holiday tomorrow, but I think it's probably there for a few more days.

Talked with my friend (charger man) & one option that came up was to go back to a stock cam & lifters lnstead of messing with rockers & pushrods.
Probably be cheaper, but a ton more work, but he would work with & guide me through that job.
Then the top end would all be back to stock, down low it has 30 over pistons I have no clue if anything else was done down there?

 

[68R/T]

INRE Edelbrock/Carter carb fuel pressure; I love these carbs because they are so easy to set up. But the no. 1 thing that they don't like is high fuel pressure. Rusty, you say that you have a stock fuel pump. Great, if you still ran the carb that the factory installed on it. The Edelbrock carb that you're running is a copy of the Carter AFB/AVS that Mopars came with in the 60's. Carter/Eddy carbs are not happy in excess of 4.5# of fuel pressure. If you're experiencing richness at idle, your pressure is too high. Even with a "stock" quadrajet carb for your car with engine & carb mods you never want to exceed 8 psi. Between my 4 Mopars I'm running a total of 6 of that style carbs. The cheapest & easiest way to regulate your fuel pressure is to install what Mopar calls a "vapor separator". NapaGold 3054 Fuel Filter by WIX (33054)?

You need to have a return line to run these. If yours did not come with one a simple fix is to tap into your fuel line anywhere prior to the fuel pump. The orifice in the return outlet is engineered to only allow your correct fuel pressure.

I am running 2 carter 4bbl's on a bone stock 318 that came with a 2bbl. By installing the separator & return line before the stock fuel pump, I idle around 700-750 rpm and get 21mpg.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

OK, that gives me another option.
My guy already got the pressure reducing control, think he said a range of 1 to 6, He said (after reading a few more posts about this problem) He's gonna start around 4, & then work it lower as he see's how it runs on higher rpm's
I'm praying this works, I haven't lost sleep over a problem since I retired, I'm too old to deal with this crap.
Just wanna cruise around a while in my baby.

 

[b-body-bob]

Talked with my friend (charger man) & one option that came up was to go back to a stock cam & lifters lnstead of messing with rockers & pushrods.

I would not keep changing things but also think I need to go back to see what you had posted relative to the rockers to start with, when you had the adjustables. ... and I did and found they seem to sort of appear all at once, you didn't measure cam lift so that's unknown, but you have 11.5:1 pistons.

I measured the factory hydraulic pushrods and the 273 solid lifter pushrods and they are both 7.5" end to end. I don't have a long caliper/mic to measure them with so that is as accurate as a tape rule can be If you do decide to go back to 273 rockers the factory ones WILL NOT WORK because they are for a solid lifter.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

Bob, I'm praying that the pressure regulator will do the job.
Now this car came to me with the 273's & Hydraulic lifters, back in the day I had don (Mr 340) over, we tried to adjust them & then he realized it had hydraulics & said you can't really adjust them.
He gave me that set of stock rockers I started with & when I put it back together I bought the new stock pushrods.
Elsewhere I have read that there is a way to adjust with the hydraulics but never went further into it because my idea was to just go back to stock.
So my next idea was if this doesn't work is to buy a stock cam, new lifters & pray I didn't waste another couple hundred & taking half the motor/car apart again!!!!!!!

 

[b-body-bob]

I hope that pressure regulator does the trick too. It's definitely a popular fix in the Edelbrock carb world from what I saw in google.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

Yep, I printed out a bunch of the discussions & brought them to him, he also saw a few in his research, & almost every one talked about the pressure issue.
The fact he said he liked my idea of trying that first & with all the reding we both did, & the input from you guys (thanks again) he was hopeful that it might do the trick!
Time will tell, I just hope it's not another month!

 

[68R/T]

INRE Edelbrock/Carter carb fuel pressure; I love these carbs because they are so easy to set up. But the no. 1 thing that they don't like is high fuel pressure. Rusty, you say that you have a stock fuel pump. Great, if you still ran the carb that the factory installed on it. The Edelbrock carb that you're running is a copy of the Carter AFB/AVS that Mopars came with in the 60's. Carter/Eddy carbs are not happy in excess of 4.5# of fuel pressure. If you're experiencing richness at idle, your pressure is too high. Even with a "stock" quadrajet carb for your car with engine & carb mods you never want to exceed 8 psi. Between my 4 Mopars I'm running a total of 6 of that style carbs. The cheapest & easiest way to regulate your fuel pressure is to install what Mopar calls a "vapor separator". NapaGold 3054 Fuel Filter by WIX (33054)?

You need to have a return line to run these. If yours did not come with one a simple fix is to tap into your fuel line anywhere prior to the fuel pump. The orifice in the return outlet is engineered to only allow your correct fuel pressure.

I am running 2 carter 4bbl's on a bone stock 318 that came with a 2bbl. By installing the separator & return line before the stock fuel pump, I idle around 700-750 rpm and get 21mpg.