Rusty's not very quiet cuda progress

Hell, I spent the lion's share of my Friday night sorting out my employee's 1968 AMX 290/4-speed:
290? I had to look that up, never heard of it. I don't remember working on a lot of AMCs from back when I did that, maybe because they didn't sell too many, and probably because they lasted forever. IIRC they were about like a Checker cab in that way.

That is a cool car.

FWIW Wiki sez:
290
The base 290 cu in (4.8 L) produced 200 or 225 hp (149 or 168 kW) with a two-barrel or four-barrel carburetor, respectively. It was built from the mid-1966 model year through the 1969 model year. It has a bore and stroke of 3.75 in × 3.28 in (95.3 mm × 83.3 mm). Only 623 cars were built in 1966 with the 290 engine. These engines were available in special Rambler American two-door Rogue models.[18] The newly powered Rogue was available with either a three-speed automatic or a floor-mounted four-speed manual transmission and made the car "suitable for the Stoplight Grand Prix."[7]
It doesn't mention AMX so either that's inaccurate or there's been an engine swap to get that AMX ready for the Stoplight Grand Prix.

Say what you will
OK, I say that's a cool car, you're lucky to be working on it.
 
290? I had to look that up, never heard of it.
You're not alone. The 290 was the base engine and not a lot of people ordered it.

Being 21 and female, people regularly try to correct her: "You mean it's a 390." No, it's a 'Typhoon 290 High Compression 4-Barrel' per the air-cleaner decal, backed up by the 290 quarter-panel emblem. It's one of 525 built with the 290 and 4-speed in 1968.

That is a cool car.
It is very cool, and it's absolutely her baby. She normally does the work on it herself, but Friday's problem was unusual so she asked for my help.

FWIW Wiki sez:

It doesn't mention AMX so either that's inaccurate or there's been an engine swap to get that AMX ready for the Stoplight Grand Prix.
The article is inaccurate. If you Wiki the AMX, the information in that write-up is better.

I've been familiar with the car since the mid-1980s. It was the first AMX sold in our county. I knew the original owner, and know the car's story literally from Day One--he intended to buy a '68 Corvette that day. Katie's the third owner. The custom stripes were applied circa 1970-71, by the original owner during a repair after a deer hit. The engine's never been out of the car and still has its numbers valve cover (it's an AMC thing). Other than the paint, mufflers, and rear suspension (coilovers--he towed a snowmobile trailer) it's an amazingly unmolested example.

OK, I say that's a cool car, you're lucky to be working on it.
No argument here.
 
My lord they had the carb, got a set of dorman caps but it had no tiny ones in there, but the carb came with 2 of those so I should be good there.

K, old carb, that vacuum port in the back was plugged.
his is where the hose from the first choke went, open to the bowl?
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Leak was from the lowest fitting at the bottom of the carb
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So they had everything but the bottom gasket, top gasket came with the carb

This is the plate I had on with that fat lower gasket, is it good for this carb?

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Manifold opening

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The vacuum port I'm using for the brake booster1000002883.jpg
Couple of small differences, one less lever by the choke, no hose thing or port on the carb for it & it has air doors for the secondary?
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Gonna go hunt for the gasket part # I got at auto zone is..........fel-pro 60145 ?
 
That should have the same gasket as a holley, right? If so Autozone should have a Holley 108-124 Base Gasket, or at least that's the text I copied from the AZ website.

Manifold opening
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That is sure an odd looking opening for the carb. It looks to me like the gasket is laying over the opening?
 
That was to show the normal gasket over that opening, it's supposed to be a fel pro 60145 which is wider both front & rear.

Just ordered it & the 55 belt from parts geek, now sure how long I will wait on those,3-7 days est? but they were in stock, at summit it was special order.
Well I have a few days to read the carb instructions!
 
That was to show the normal gasket over that opening, it's supposed to be a fel pro 60145 which is wider both front & rear.
Correct. You want the Fel-Pro 60145 under the plate and a Fel-Pro 1900 (or equivalent) between the carburetor and the plate. If you're worried about leaks, you could use the High Tack spray between the gaskets and the plate to make one solid unit out of the three. I don't think that's necessary, though.

Leak was from the lowest fitting at the bottom of the carb
View attachment 27878
I can't see any fitting there, just the end of the secondary throttle shaft. Regardless, there should be no fuel leaks below the air horn gasket on that carburetor, and that gasket is a couple of inches away from the bottom of the carb.

Couple of small differences, one less lever by the choke, no hose thing or port on the carb for it & it has air doors for the secondary?
View attachment 27876
The air doors are an adjustable air valve, hence the carburetor name: AVS = Air Valve Secondary. It's similar to the old Carter AVS system in concept, but it's still basically a Performer other than the air valve.

I don't think that vacuum port for the choke was supposed to be on the old carburetor. I've never seen such a port on another Performer carb in 30+ years. Since the Performer is nothing more than a Carter AFB with an Edelbrock decal, parts interchange willy-nilly with factory-issue AFBs. That carb was put together using parts from various other carbs, including the air horn (top plate) from a factory AFB with some kind of early emissions calibration (Chrysler abandoned the AFB after '66 except on the Hemi, which was a money-loser on which they weren't spending anything on further street development).
 
K, bottom gasket ordered, top gasket came with the carb.
Yes the leak was by that throttle shaft. I ran my fingers around above that area when I saw the gas dripping & it was all dry at the time,
What ever jerry did with that carb is beyond my knowledge, but after 2 trips out there I have given up on it.

Now I wait on the gasket before my saga can continue, hopefully down the right path this time!
 
What I would surmise about the fuel leak: 1) worn secondary throttle shaft bore, 2) Float not sealing, (for who knows why) causing flooding to secondary bores and puddling on the baffles and seeping out the shaft bores. I would say that the carb has multiple issues and needs replacing.
 
Yep, above post, I gave up on it, I had another in the garage, but after all this crapola I don't even want to try it. New one is here, just waiting on the gasket now.
 
Jerry was on top of his game back in the day, He built marks 440 for the charger with no problems & the carb for my other cuda, but that was 15 or so years ago.
He's low 80's now & maybe has lost a step or 2.
Or maybe it's just my haunted car, nothing seems to go well lately.

Tomorrow I'll hook up my vacuum pump & pray the A/c system holds a vac.
Finish off the wiring for that & see what else I can tinker with till the gasket gets here. 20230530_145517.jpg20230530_145528.jpg
 
'64 Plymouth, had one myself in my younger days. Spent a lot of money buying & doing things that I shouldn't have. :cautious: Live & learn, as they say.
 
I had a 65 satellite that another kid converted to 440 4 speed , spent more time that year broke down in the garage than on the street!
I traded that for a 66 GTO with a 2 speed slip box, at least that ran most of the time.
Then it was 'Cuda time, my first new car in 74. That I did not mess with at all, had it to 81 with my first kid on the way, the axle ran out on me on the highway.
Family cars for the next , well forever, charger In 07 passed for a family car & made me feel a little better.
Did drive dodge maxi vans for 40 or so working years, till sprinters came in, last work truck was a chevy van, actually had some trouble with that!
 
K 1st up I called classic & the new switch on the drier is Hi/lo so I'm clear there.
Dug out my vacuum pump & got that hooked up, the ole gal actually worked, first try it started leaking off, I was quite upset, I HATE leak searching, but got lucky I tightened up the fittings at marks gauges (he had the car adaptors) ran the pump a while longer & now will let it sit overnight, if it holds I'll run it a few more hours to really suck it out, I had the condenser & evap coil taped off but they have been sitting for a few years now?
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Finished off the A/C wiring & started putting the carb together, easy stuff done.
Since I had those leak problems at the carb adaptor I took the new seal off the hose fitting & put it on mine, hope that does the job!
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goodies laid out
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throttle adapter on
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This is the other carb I had laying around, probably off the 73 has a Manuel choke, can't remember why, cause it had a humongous holly on it when I got it?

If anyone can use it it's up for grabs, free as a bird! 1000002910.jpg
Read the carb instructions many questions to follow, gonna eat some chow now!
 
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Here we go, first one I think I don't need to ask but just to be safe................... they say I MUST use a fuel line adaptor kit to convert my metal line to a hose?
Pretty sure since it worked on the other carb, my adaptor fitting overrides that??????

Next on thermo quad & quadrajet carbs you need their 4 round hole adaptor says not to use a square bore.
edelbrock # 2696 in the pic it looks pretty thick.

Soooooooooo do I go back to 2 plates, like I did the first time
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Or just order theirs to play it safe????

If I go 2 round one is top near the carb & square hole is down on the manifold right???

Do I have timed advance or full advance timed would be passenger side port full would be drivers side?

Idle mix when she's warm

3 more adjustments I'm not too sure about after it's running
calibrate the pump
air valve adjustment
& float adjustment, I assume the last should be factory set?
 
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Here we go, first one I think I don't need to ask but just to be safe................... they say I MUST use a fuel line adaptor kit to convert my metal line to a hose?
Pretty sure since it worked on the other carb, my adaptor fitting overrides that??????
If it worked on the old one and didn't leak, I can't see any reason not to use it on the new one.

Next on thermo quad & quadrajet carbs you need their 4 round hole adaptor says not to use a square bore.
edelbrock # 2696 in the pic it looks pretty thick.
You definitely don't want the 4-hole flat plate, nor do you want two plates. Two plates is essentially begging for a vacuum leak (there would be three gaskets, hence six potential leak spots). The Edelbrock part would be ideal, with Mr Gasket 1932 being a reasonable second place (and you probably know someone local that's got one hanging on a nail in their garage). If the open plate you were using previously cleared all four throttle blades, it's probably OK--but you should double-check. The AVS2 may have larger rear bores, which could hit the plate you were using.

The Mr Gasket is less expensive, while Edelbrock will drive more nicely due to its 4-hole design. I won't bore you with the physics of it, but the 4 small holes will maintain charge velocity better than one big opening. That's better for around-town driving. Yes, it's noticeable.

The downside to the Edelbrock and Mr Gasket adapters is that they're fairly thick--a little over 3/4" in either case. I don't believe you'll have hood issues, but it can affect things like throttle cable reach, kickdown linkage, and possibly the fuel line. Ever see the super-high-rise throttle-cable bracket I have on Agnes? The Slant Six throttle cable was the only one that would reach!

Whichever way you go, make sure your chosen plate sits absolutely flat to both the intake and carb before you try to install anything. If it's warped, it will not "flatten out" sufficiently when installing the carb.

Do I have timed advance or full advance timed would be passenger side port full would be drivers side?
Factory was "timed", more correctly called ported. I'd stick with that. It works well and is a lot less f__kin' around to get right. On Agnes I was using full, but that's a completely different beast.

Idle mix when she's warm
Correct. Fully up to operating temperature, gauge where it would normally be during driving. Messing with anything prior to that is spitting into the wind, trust me. It's also true of all the following calibrations.

3 more adjustments I'm not too sure about after it's running
calibrate the pump
Maybe. That's one of those "you have to drive it" things.
Start with the out-of-the-box setting and drive it around a bit. See if it's OK on "jackrabbit" starts from a stop--not necessarily drag-race, full-throttle starts, more like "I don't think that goon is slowing down enough behind me" starts. Find a lonely stretch of road with enough speed limit, and travel at 25-30MPH constant speed. Now push it quickly to half-throttle (or more). Finally, when you get a chance, just floor it from a standing start. If it stumbles on rapid throttle input, generally you need more accelerator pump shot. There are three holes in the accelerator-pump arm; the rod should be in the middle one out of the box. The first thing to try is moving the rod that moves the pump arm closer to the fulcrum (pivot point). If it gets worse, move it to the furthest position.

Honestly, I think this is going to be OK out of the box if we get the mixture screws tuned correctly. If we can't make those do their thing, well, you'll need a ton of pump shot (closest hole, larger squirters) to cover the stumble.

air valve adjustment
This is pretty easy to do if it's required. Again, this is more of a "drive it and see" proposition.
The air doors (a.k.a. "air valves") regulate how quickly the secondaries operate by restricting through them airflow. When you drive the car, you need to floor it (in a safe space) just long enough to get the doors to open, a.k.a. "kick in the four-barrel". If it reacts instantly, like it should, don't mess with them. If it stumbles or "bogs", believe it or not, that usually means they're not opening quickly enough. Follow the calibration procedure (I'm sure the instructions give an idea of how big a step to take in this process) until standing on it provides instantaneous "OH-I'M-IN-TROUBLE-NOW" acceleration. No hesitation, no bog, just RIGHT NOW power.

Factory carburetors with secondary air valves or doors were notoriously set up with the doors too tight. That resulted in a hesitation when opening the secondaries that gave us the derogatory terms "ThermoBog" and "Bog-drajet" or "Quadra-Bog". Both the ThermoQuad and QuadraJet are actually fantastic carburetors, particularly on street-driven cars... people just aren't aware that the hesitation is easily tuned out of the equation.

float adjustment, I assume the last should be factory set?
This should actually be the first thing you do, since idle mixture can be affected by fuel level in the bowl. I won't bore you with those physics either, but it has to do with pressure across the mixture screws' orifices. It should be factory set, and the instructions should mention whether it is. Then again, a lot of things should be and aren't.
I think on that carb the float adjustment requires disassembly (that's how most Carter designs work). I would also think a brand-new $450 carb would have the float level correctly set right out of the box, but Holleys rarely do. Then again, Holley floats are externally adjustable in most cases. Anyhow, if nothing else, call Edelbrock's tech line--you paid for it--and get the full skinny from a human.

Despite having my fingers in dozens of carbs over the years, I wouldn't want to have to disassemble a brand-new one for something the factory should've done. Find out.
 
OK. I will start by ordering the plate, it did look thick & comes with a bottom gasket, that looked similar to the one I ordered, between the 2 I should be set there,
It looked like smaller holes on the carb side & flaired out to match the bigger intake hole at the bottom. Found one on amazon 7 bucks less than summit & free shipping & here in a day or two, gonna go order now.
Thanks
 
This is the other carb I had laying around, probably off the 73 has a Manuel choke, can't remember why, cause it had a humongous holly on it when I got it?

If anyone can use it it's up for grabs, free as a bird! View attachment 27892
I love those carbs. Between my 4 cars I'm running 6 of them, plus a couple of parts carbs. To me they are like girl friends were in my earlier years, never too many to have. 😊
 
would it be of any use to you I think I still have your address, I would feel better if it didn't go in with my final metal junk dump!
 

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