Rusty's not very quiet cuda progress

well after much searching & failing I finally found a place fairly close to crimp the 2 A/C hoses, the place that did marks said they don't do it anymore have no idea why that would be?
Of course I had to leave them which means another 1 hour trip!
I guess better then having to send them back to Classic to do?
Soooooooooo another wasted day.
 
Thought I stumbled onto the problem was starting the engine & gas started leaking out of the top carb gasket, tightened up all the screws & started her up, after warm I set the idle at 850, then played with the timing a bit, seemed to idle best at10BTDC, but it idled up a bit, lowered it back to 850, played with the mixture screws a bit, not much effect there.
Thought I was a little better, vac was up to around 12.

Fast forward bout 20 mins of running & the darn vac settled back to 10.

I can't catch a break!
 

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the darn vac settled back to 10
Clearances opened up.

Have you tried spraying some starting fluid at potential vacuum leaks? Engine speeds up, got a leak. Try to not let it get sucked into the carb throat. It's been said before but it might just be the nature of your beast.
 
I sprayed carb cleaner around the carb base, no noticeable change, I think at this point I will forget that till I get someone over here that knows how to tune these old beasts.
If it runs, drives & most of all if the A/C & breaks work I will forget about it!

Still waiting on my A/C hose.

House plumbing issue is today's project , maybe while I do that I'll get the call on the hoses?
 
Yea plumbing fixed & A/C lines picked up, now once there in I get to pull a vac & pray it holds, don't wanna chase down leaks, but you guys know with this car that might be a miracle in itself!
 
K, got lucky the parts store also had the connector I needed for the compressor line & they also fit the connectors they put on my tach!

Blue connector towards the right.
20240531_164117.jpg
So lines are in, started on the wiring, they had taped the old cut line , so I had the right connector for the original A/C line, just had to extend that.
20240531_165609.jpgNo white shrink wrap, had to go black!

So 3 more connections to make & wiring is done, any chance of it working is the big question? 20240531_171321.jpgTomorrow I will see if it will run & move long enough to get in the garage?
Then the vac pump can run while I finish the wiring.
 
HELP!!!!!
I'm giving up on this carb from jerry, this time I was trying to put it in the garage & actually got stuck in the street trying to turn it around, started pouring gas out near the bottom this time, got lucky & managed to run it long enough to get it in the garage.

So I am buying a new carb, I think I have a carter 600 cfm on there now.

Auto zone near me has an edelbrock #1906 AVS-2 650 cfm square flange for $447.
Updated version of the 1406?
Also says I need an edelbrock adaptor # 5765 (sku 228351)

Sooooo, will my adaptor I used on the carter work.

This is all on a 71 340 stock intake. I'm really getting sick of these problems & want to do this once & RIGHT!!!!!
 
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So the plan was to wash it & then pull it in, so being a tad pissed I took the hose & rinsed it off in the garage, I think the floor might be dry by now!20240601_150156.jpg
Messed with the clamp for the t-stat & the exp valve, but that seems off too, too big a gap for the 2 thin tubes & way small to get the rolled up exp valve end in.
Do I just goop the whole end to cover it all? 20240601_153047.jpg
 
I watched a show the other day where the shop owner flat out refused to install aftermarket A/C but got a parts car and took all the A/C parts off that instead.

He might be onto something.
 
I didn't want to mess with the heater box, hope that was the right choice?
So far except for the belt fiasco & major missing parts from the get go, after getting the hoses crimped which was a pleasant Suprise 20 bucks, can't get anything for 20 bucks these days.
I can change to a hose clamp, I'll give them a call to see what they suggest?
Now if my evap & condenser don't leak & all the old controls work & I have enough vac to operate my dampers, crap I could go on forever, it did at least go in ok. Will it work that's a question mark.

Any thought on that edel carb?
 
Any thought on that edel carb?
I've got no experience with those. I watch one guy's videos who likes them and says they're easier to tune than a Holley. A lot of that depends on what you're used to. You should probably be prepared to tune the accelerator pump.

https://www.youtube.com/@DeadDodgeGarage
I can change to a hose clamp, I'll give them a call to see what they suggest?
Is the circled thing what you're calling a clamp? If so, are you sure that's not heat shrink tubing?
 
The clamp they give is a snap on, a little shinier just after the offset, I slid both lines through it & they are loose, I do know good contact is necessary, that rolled up end on the expansion valve line is throwing me, never saw that before.
They did mention in instructions I could use a hose clamp, but need to know if I clamp the fat roll or just the thin tube.
Not a big deal, heck I could do both to be safe.
 
The carb screws coming loose is actually not uncommon, especially on older Carter designs. I had (and probably will have) the same problem with the BBS 1-barrel on my '68 Valiant. I just tightened 'em and called it a day for now since that carb needs a rebuild anyhow. A drop of weak threadlocker (blue) on the threads should solve it.

As far as dumping gas at the bottom, I assume that was coming out around the throttle shafts since there's no gasket or seam in the carb body that low. That could really only be caused by a stuck or sunken float, dirt in one or both of the needle/seat assemblies, or way too much fuel pump. Since this is the first time we've seen that to my knowledge, I doubt it's the fuel pump. I also kind of doubt a sunken float since it just appeared, but I can't rule that one out completely. A stuck float is more likely, especially with Edelbrock carbs being prone to rust in the float bowls due to substandard steel/plating on the float baffles. However, what really bothers me is the "pouring gas out" part of your post. There's nowhere for gas to pour out below float level on an AFB. If it leaks around the throttle shaft(s) it should be seeping at most. Are the throttle shaft bores that worn? How much wobble have you got in the primary throttle shaft? Secondary? Usually the primary is the issue, and most often that's caused by too heavy a throttle-return spring. Over time, the back-and-forth rotation of the throttle shaft wears its bore into an oval or egg shape. That would've been an existing condition on your carb when you got it, since you've never even driven the bloody thing. Were it a "numbers" carb, it would be worth the expense of having the shaft bores bushed. An aftermarket carb without a replaceable throttle plate most often doesn't warrant that kind of expense.

This is why I almost never install a used carb without a full, fresh rebuild. I've done it in the past just to move the car, but otherwise they get a full rebuild right out of the gate. Carter AFB ("Edelbrock Performer") and Holley carbs are so easy to rebuild there's really no reason it shouldn't happen.

If you're looking at a new carb, the AVS2 isn't a bad choice. It's essentially what you've already got with an adjustable secondary air door, rather than a proper AVS clone. It uses the same tuning parts as the carb you've got, not that I think that's a concern. The secondary air door might want some tuning, though, so that's another consideration. More potential tweaking, although in this case it's very simple.

When you re-sealed the intake, did the bolts go in very easily or were there hole mismatches/bolts that wanted to go in at an angle? Just glancing through, it looks like you forgot the tip about Permatex High-Tack spray gasket sealant on the intake gaskets, although that shouldn't be as critical with the end seals removed. The reason I asked about the bolts is because if they don't seem to want to align, that's usually an indicator of machining either on the manifold itself or the heads. That could cause a port mismatch or the surfaces to not sit flat against one another. Thicker gaskets are available for exactly that reason. Regardless, there's still a vacuum leak somewhere. I managed 10" of vacuum with the Valiant at one point, which has a far more aggressive camshaft. I'd think you should be at 14" or more even with your cam being unknown. If the idle mixture screws have no effect, there's definitely a vacuum leak. Finding it is the problem. Check those throttle shafts for play first and foremost. Another thing to remember is that every port on the carb should either be connected to something or capped. Period. The sole exception to this would be the bowl vent, which is something the Edelbrock 1406 should not have.

I noticed this picture, with the mystery vacuum line to the choke thermostat:

20240516_160215-jpg.27736


I have no idea what that hose was supposed to accomplish, but I've never seen that on an Edelbrock. As such, I've no idea where they go inside the carburetor. Make sure the fittings at both ends of that hose are capped or plugged. The bottom fitting may not go anywhere important, which you can check with the engine running--put a finger on it, can you feel vacuum?--but if you're unable to do that, you could tap that hole and install a set screw or you could fill it with a product called Seal-All, which is the only sealant that will withstand fuel. Side note: Don't ever, ever use Seal-All as a gasket sealant. It is impossible to disassemble later. You were warned.

Disconnect every single vacuum line on the carburetor: the one to the distributor, the HVAC system, the power brakes, the PCV valve, and anything else. Cap all those fittings at the carburetor with proper vacuum caps. If you don't have them, run to the parts store--they sell an assortment. Don't plug the hoses or use electrical tape or any other "well, I have this instead" half-assed solution. Make sure the vacuum caps aren't torn or rotten if you've got 'em lying around. Next, make sure the carburetor mounting hardware is tight. Yes, those nuts and bolts do come loose from the intake now and then.

With all the vacuum lines gone, their fittings capped, and the carburetor verified to be snug to the intake, start the engine. Allow the engine to reach operating temperature; in other words the temp-gauge needle has stopped moving entirely. I've mentioned this several times and it's worth mentioning again: You can't accomplish anything with the carburetor until the engine is fully warm (and the choke is 100% open). Once it's hot, try again with the idle mixture screws.

If the mixture screws now work, then something you disconnected from vacuum is the problem. As you reconnect each vacuum hose, try the mixture screws. Did they stop working or seem less effective? Then that hose, or the component to which it connects, is the problem. It's important to reconnect one hose, try the screws, and check your results. For instance, reconnect the HVAC hose. Try the screws. Are they just as effective? If they're not, then your issue is in that vacuum circuit. If they still work, try the vacuum advance and check the screws again. Still workin'? Move on to the brake booster hose and repeat. When the screws stop doin' their thing, there's your problem.

The two major suspects here would be the brake booster and the PCV valve, since either is a massive vacuum leak if not sealed. Yes, boosters can fail internally and still seem to work OK but allow huge amounts of air into the engine. The PCV valve is an "engineered" vacuum leak, but the right valve is important. I wouldn't expect the HVAC line to cause that much issue, but then again the orifices in the idle-mixture passages are tiny.

If the mixture screws still have no effect then something's cracked, warped, or not sealed on the engine itself. Check the intake and carb closely for cracks. Make sure the throttle shafts are not wobbly. The idle screw should be turned just enough for the engine to idle and no more. Double-check that the secondary throttle bores are completely closed. Replace the carb gasket(s) if it gives you peace of mind; adapters introduce twice the potential for a leak. Jerry's "proper gasket for that manifold" is approximately right, being the correct shape and in some cases thickness (not your case), but that partictular one should go right in the trash. Never reuse gaskets. The best gaskets for your application are either those provided with the adapter new, or the non-stick blue gaskets that are about 1/16" thick. The lower one (between the adapter and intake) should be shaped like Jerry's thick one, although it may have four holes rather than an open center. The other gasket in that photo is the right shape as well, and closer in thickness to what you want.
You said you've got a '71 intake, which doesn't have any "native" or built-in potential vacuum leaks like the '74-and-later manifolds with EGR. That leaves us nothing to chase on that end, but it simplifies things... one less thing to go wrong. There's only one vacuum port in my '71 intake, on the driver's side behind the carburetor flange. On mine there's a 1/4"NPT pipe plug in it, placed there by Mother herself.
 
As far as the AC goes, I didn't read too much because I can't really help you there. I would suggest turning to whomever sold you the new compressor and related parts for instructions on exactly how the system should be configured. That includes how it's affected by the rest of the system (expansion valve, receiver/dryer, etc.) and if any of those areas need attention. Their tech support should be able to walk you through it, unless of course it's Bouchillon. In that case, good luck.

The only thing I know for sure is that factory Chrysler air conditioning prior to the mid-1970s did not cycle the compressor. Prior to (about) 1975, factory Chrysler compressors had a pressure regulator (EPR valve). If the AC was on the compressor was running. The EPR valve kept the pressure constant. Later AC systems cycled the compressor to maintain a constant pressure. When converting to R134 , the EPR valve must be removed and a high-pressure switch installed to cycle the compressor. Since you've got a non-factory compressor, you don't have an EPR valve, so you need a high-pressure switch somewhere in the system to cycle the compressor and regulate the pressure. Otherwise it'll fail in short order. Provisions for such a switch--and in my mind, the switch itself along with wiring instructions--should've been provided with your aftermarket parts. Mind you, the switch mounted on your receiver/dryer is a low-pressure cutoff. That's present on my '71 as well as all the old Chrysler AC systems. It is not the same, so you're not OK "because there's a switch." If the compressor doesn't cycle off it will grenade, make no mistake.
Also remember there has to be enough refrigerant in the system to overcome the low-pressure switch. The compressor won't engage on an empty system.

This doesn't apply to you, Rusty:
For anyone contemplating keeping their factory V2 or RV2 compressor and converting it to R134a, the EPR valve must be removed and a high-pressure (cycling) switch installed in the system. The EPR valve will not work with R143a and you will have a compressor failure. I believe the cycling switch mounts to the compressor on factory systems so equipped but I'm not certain. The factory switch was part number 3503544, available in the aftermarket as Four Seasons number 35867.

Beyond that, AC is not my strong point; I've always been an "add until it's cold" kind of guy for the most part. For my '71, I've bought a few hundred bucks worth of NOS rebuild parts for the factory V2 "thumper" compressor. I'd rather fix that than deal with a combination of OE and aftermarket stuff. I'm keeping the bypass valve and using R12. I'll eventually have to do a bit of a mishmash for my '74 (using a GM compressor and R12, not a Sanden style), but that's far enough in the future that I haven't clogged my brain with it yet.
 
A/c should be quick, I bought the complete underhood kit from classic, I have to go back & reread but I think they said the new switch on the receiver is hi/lo. I will double check & call them if not.
All that's left of the old is the evap & condenser coils.
I have yet to pull a vac & see if she holds, all fittings went in by hand as they said they should EXCEPT the friggen nut from the evap to the exp valve, that will be a big problem if it leaks!
 
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OK, carb, it was "dripping" pretty good from the drivers side lowest fitting towards the rear.
At this point I'm just gonna go buy the new AVS & gaskets,

I did put on a new choke assembly before this latest disaster & that hose was gone (no port on the new choke) & at the carb it's just open to the bowl?

I will print out the vacuum leak tests & once I get the new carb in & hopefully the car running again I will go through that again.

Way back, the break booster & A/C lines were not used or hooked up., My intake also has the one port behind carb drivers side, that will go to the break booster, I was using that for the guage.

I also bought a new PCV valve along this road, I painted the engine side, pit the intake gaskets on & then painted those with that can of permatex sealent, it was red, & said resists gas????? Of course the instructions said use nothing, so I may have screwed that up again???

All gray silicone front & rear no cork gaskets.

Thanks Jass, I know I'm dense.
The great info you give does eventually sink in.

Will hope for some kind of success with the new carb, but this car just does not want to cooperate!
 
If the fuel pressure on an Edelbrock/Carter carb exceeds 6 pounds the pressure will overcome the floats and cause rich mixture/leakage or flooding.
 
OK, carb, it was "dripping" pretty good from the drivers side lowest fitting towards the rear.
Which fitting specifically? A vacuum port?

I did put on a new choke assembly before this latest disaster & that hose was gone (no port on the new choke) & at the carb it's just open to the bowl?
I've never seen a bowl vent like that, nor does it make any sense to route it down to the choke. That's why I said to cap it, preferably at both ends if possible.

Way back, the break booster & A/C lines were not used or hooked up.,
But were the ports capped at the carb? Also, the AFB/Performer has a power-brake vacuum port on the back of the carb down at the flange. Sometimes it comes with a pipe plug in it (apparently it uses a screw-in nipple). Was/is that capped or plugged?

I also bought a new PCV valve along this road, I painted the engine side, pit the intake gaskets on & then painted those with that can of permatex sealent, it was red, & said resists gas????? Of course the instructions said use nothing, so I may have screwed that up again???
OK, the PCV valve shouldn't be the issue then, but it's still worth capping the fitting at the carb just to eliminate variables.

It sounds like you did the High Tack correctly; assembly is supposed to take place while the spray is still tacky but I don't think you screwed it up even if it was drier than recommended. As far as the instructions saying to use nothing, that's most likely because they want to avoid people using silicone anywhere near the ports. On big-blocks, I've been throwing the instructions out along with the paper gasket facings they insist I need, and just spraying the turkey pan with High Tack for 30 years. It's the only way I've ever gotten a 440 intake to actually seal!

All gray silicone front & rear no cork gaskets.
Perfect!

Thanks Jass, I know I'm dense.
The great info you give does eventually sink in.
Not dense, just beyond your comfort zone. The reason we call this a hobby is because if we needed to know thist stuff to get to work every day, we'd have spent most of our adult lives unemployed. Your persistence is impressive, though. I admire your stick-to-it-tuiveness.

The main reason I've not been in here as much is due to time. I've been concerning myself with my own junk, be it working on my cars (or other people's), getting the cops off my case, or finding parts that I've had less time to devote to the 'Cuda... and I think it's fair to say I've spent a lot of time on it.

Hell, I spent the lion's share of my Friday night sorting out my employee's 1968 AMX 290/4-speed:

100_6064.JPG

Say what you will, but the paint and those custom stripes are over 50 years old.


If the fuel pressure on an Edelbrock/Carter carb exceeds 6 pounds the pressure will overcome the floats and cause rich mixture/leakage or flooding.
Very true, but he's got a stock-replacement fuel pump (designed for a Carter) and the leakage issue is a recent development. With modern replacement fuel pumps, I'm more impressed that they move fuel a'tall, so I don't worry about high pressure being an issue. I haven't seen it yet, although there's a first time for everything.
 
When I get the carb off I'll get pics of the leak spot & the other odd "things"

Jerry said a float stuck or dirt in the needle, at this point I'm tired of pulling it driving for an hour for him to do some little thing, put it back together & find another problem just HOPE a new carb will eliminate any question marks at that point, He said he will refund my 200 when I bring it back.

Anyone need any 60's mopar stuff he's got tons including 2 max wedge racers from back in the day (Teachers pet) was his logo.

Carb port in the back was plugged I think. I used the one on the manifold for the brake booster.
When I was testing earlier I disconnected the brake line, I hooked up my vacuum gauge there.
All other ports were capped

AMX is nice!

What you went thru to just on the electric/bypass was above & beyond, the hours I spent reading & rereading were probably a fraction of the time you had to put in to research all of that.
It is appreciated & more mopar parts will be heading your way if I ever get this thing semi working!

The puter said they had the carb in stock at my store, I will find out tomorrow & add the vacuum caps & gaskets to the order!
 

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