Rusty's not very quiet cuda progress
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RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
You missed it by a little while, just one was in & out already, hopefully I didn't damage it?
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
Perty for now, lets see how long it takes me to get it on wheels & running so I can get it in the garage, won't take long for that nice clean exhaust system to start rusting!
I clear coated or painted everything else under there.
I clear coated or painted everything else under there.
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
Rad looks great, I stuck the shroud over the fan (thank's doc) & slid the rad in. my fourth bolt was with the overflow hardware, which reminded me I had to mount that bracket, when I dug the new one out the bracket were bare metal, so I got those painted up, should be able to wrap that up tomorrow. 
So I stuck the cap on & taped up all the other holes to keep the spiders & snakes out & went digging thru boxes again! 
Overflow bottle even had the hardware.
Found some other goodies, return line for power steering & a couple of hoses
& the 3 speed wiper motor I was looking for last week, I had to tape up all the frayed wires on mine, but this seems to have a different plug anyway?
So I stuck the cap on & taped up all the other holes to keep the spiders & snakes out & went digging thru boxes again! Overflow bottle even had the hardware.Found some other goodies, return line for power steering & a couple of hoses
& the 3 speed wiper motor I was looking for last week, I had to tape up all the frayed wires on mine, but this seems to have a different plug anyway?
b-body-bob
Well-known member
You missed a chance to say the rad looks rad.
You can change the plug. They should all have the same wires, maybe in different places but they should use common colors so you can just put the wires in the plug where they need to be.
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
Damn, I haven't thought of RAD in many many years!
At this point I'll wait & see if mine works, the other is off ebay, they said it was a working unit?
At this point I'll wait & see if mine works, the other is off ebay, they said it was a working unit?
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
That bypass hose is going to be a bit tricky to install underneath the AC compressor. The factory bypass hoses got painted with the engine because they were installed right after the intake manifold.
I don't pretend to know much about three-speed wiper motors, so I won't contribute anything about the wiring, plug or anything else. There's certainly no harm in attempting what @b-body-bob suggested. However, the motor you posted is absolutely not an E-body wiper motor of any stripe, particularly not a '74.
What you've got is a mid-'60s unit: Half the motor housing is part of the alloy gear housing, the motor housing is too short and has no separate end plate, and the gear housing cover is flat.
Later motors, starting in 1968 as I recall, have a separate steel motor housing for its entire length (about an inch longer than yours), a separate end plate screwed to the non-gear-housing end, and, in the case of '73-up, a plastic switch cover atop the gear-case cover.
This is a crappy, retouched photo of an undisturbed original 1974 Challenger wiper motor. The 1-piece motor housing fairly obvious, but the plastic switch cover on the gear case impossible to miss.
Someone did try to bodge the wiring on the one in the photo to get multiple speeds via toggle switches after the original switch failed, but the motor itself does not appear to ever have been off the firewall. I loosened the lower nut to remove the braided ground strap. I have two other 1974 three-speed motors here that look essentially the same, they're just much nicer. I haven't got pictures of those, unfortunately, and I'm in no shape to go digging for 'em at the moment. So, here's a restored one:
Whether the one you have will bolt to the firewall and work--rewired or otherwise--I have no idea. I'm betting the crank arm is wrong, though. I know the crank arm (the piece bolted to the motor itself, to which the linkage connects) changed over the years based on body style, but I don't know what the differences are. What you've got is absolutely older than 1968, but I've no idea which model it fits.
The only non E-body application that interchanges 100% with the E-body is the same-year B-body, other than 1970. '70 E-body is its own creature. A '74 B-body motor is the same as a '74 E-body, but other '74 motors (A-body or C-barge) are not the same due to the crank-arm differences. Whether a '73 motor would work on your car, I can't say--my apologies, but I've done enough digging regarding wiring already.
I don't pretend to know much about three-speed wiper motors, so I won't contribute anything about the wiring, plug or anything else. There's certainly no harm in attempting what @b-body-bob suggested. However, the motor you posted is absolutely not an E-body wiper motor of any stripe, particularly not a '74.
What you've got is a mid-'60s unit: Half the motor housing is part of the alloy gear housing, the motor housing is too short and has no separate end plate, and the gear housing cover is flat.
Later motors, starting in 1968 as I recall, have a separate steel motor housing for its entire length (about an inch longer than yours), a separate end plate screwed to the non-gear-housing end, and, in the case of '73-up, a plastic switch cover atop the gear-case cover.
This is a crappy, retouched photo of an undisturbed original 1974 Challenger wiper motor. The 1-piece motor housing fairly obvious, but the plastic switch cover on the gear case impossible to miss.
Someone did try to bodge the wiring on the one in the photo to get multiple speeds via toggle switches after the original switch failed, but the motor itself does not appear to ever have been off the firewall. I loosened the lower nut to remove the braided ground strap. I have two other 1974 three-speed motors here that look essentially the same, they're just much nicer. I haven't got pictures of those, unfortunately, and I'm in no shape to go digging for 'em at the moment. So, here's a restored one:
Whether the one you have will bolt to the firewall and work--rewired or otherwise--I have no idea. I'm betting the crank arm is wrong, though. I know the crank arm (the piece bolted to the motor itself, to which the linkage connects) changed over the years based on body style, but I don't know what the differences are. What you've got is absolutely older than 1968, but I've no idea which model it fits.
The only non E-body application that interchanges 100% with the E-body is the same-year B-body, other than 1970. '70 E-body is its own creature. A '74 B-body motor is the same as a '74 E-body, but other '74 motors (A-body or C-barge) are not the same due to the crank-arm differences. Whether a '73 motor would work on your car, I can't say--my apologies, but I've done enough digging regarding wiring already.
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
OK, mine looks original then I have to hope it works! 
I cleaned up that tape job since then.
I cleaned up that tape job since then.
68R/T
I got drunk and swallowed my teeth, now
I do know that the 68-70 B & C wiper motors will interchange by swapping the arms and re-clocking the contact plate by rotating it accordingly. The 3 screws and the markings by them tell you where it should be. I used to know the orientation, but it was wisdom that I preferred to forget.
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
As above, I'll pray mine works, now I should have painted it before I put it in, I may just blob some clear on it at this point!
I have no memory of what worked on this car, I drove it around the neighborhood after doing the brakes, it was summer I never tried the heat, I knew the A/C didn't work, the compressor wire was just dangling in the air. Pretty sure the lights did work?
After one slap from low to neutral I found out there was such a thing as a non slapstick, then on a proper shift she let out a nice chirp from 1st to 2nd so it had some power.
then after getting stuck a few times I decided to park it & she sat for about 12 years waiting for me to get back to it!
I have no memory of what worked on this car, I drove it around the neighborhood after doing the brakes, it was summer I never tried the heat, I knew the A/C didn't work, the compressor wire was just dangling in the air. Pretty sure the lights did work?
After one slap from low to neutral I found out there was such a thing as a non slapstick, then on a proper shift she let out a nice chirp from 1st to 2nd so it had some power.
then after getting stuck a few times I decided to park it & she sat for about 12 years waiting for me to get back to it!
b-body-bob
Well-known member
I've got a similar problem to deal with on the van when I pull the intake. I think I can can get the intake off and on with the A/C compressor in place but won't be able to get the bypass and heater hoses installed unless I remove it. It's a little different because it's got a FoMoCo compressor on it (commercial chassis) but it's in the same place - right in the way.
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
Won't be the first time I had to take half the car apart to put one piece on, I hope it doesn't come to that. I'll take a look see after I get the rad/shroud/overflow done, if nothing goes wacky there!
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
Finished off the overflow, even that had some problems. I did remember a brace from the battery tray to the rad, it was for this. But the nut is on a higher part of the tray & will mess with the battery, if so I'll just remove it! 
the hoses they sent don't fit the cap!!! I can get one end on the radiator.
A bit later I found my old cap & luckily the hoses were still there.
Which one goes to the rad & which is the dump off?
Then it was on to the bypass hose, wasn't too terrible, just had to remove the top bracket & loosen the bolt in the front, not a ton of clearance there! 
at that point I noticed the heater line also stuffed in there so it was off to auto zone to pick up some more hose, got that, oil & oil filter & some vacuum hose.
stuck that on & cut it way long till I figure out the routing!
So while I was under there tightening up the bottom rad bolts I saw how tight everything was, so I pulled out the bottom rad hose & some fuel line, rad hose & supply fuel lines in, but I could not find the metal line to carb which I swear was in my fuel line kit??? 
Now the bypass & bottom were new hoses, I had a top hose it had been on a car, felt pretty good I think I may have changed it when I got the car, a lot of years on it but not any miles to speak of & at least that one is easy to change later.
Had planned on doing the trans lines too, but after all the detours I ran out of gas!
the hoses they sent don't fit the cap!!! I can get one end on the radiator.A bit later I found my old cap & luckily the hoses were still there.Which one goes to the rad & which is the dump off?
Then it was on to the bypass hose, wasn't too terrible, just had to remove the top bracket & loosen the bolt in the front, not a ton of clearance there! at that point I noticed the heater line also stuffed in there so it was off to auto zone to pick up some more hose, got that, oil & oil filter & some vacuum hose.stuck that on & cut it way long till I figure out the routing!
So while I was under there tightening up the bottom rad bolts I saw how tight everything was, so I pulled out the bottom rad hose & some fuel line, rad hose & supply fuel lines in, but I could not find the metal line to carb which I swear was in my fuel line kit??? Now the bypass & bottom were new hoses, I had a top hose it had been on a car, felt pretty good I think I may have changed it when I got the car, a lot of years on it but not any miles to speak of & at least that one is easy to change later.Had planned on doing the trans lines too, but after all the detours I ran out of gas!
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
So in the thought of keeping the engine in some oil I put about a quart into the holes on each valve cover, I seem to remember some kind of trick with a drill to pump oil around, is that something an idiot like me can do, if so I'll put the rest of the oil in now & do that once in a while till I put in the distributor?
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
On the overflow, the one with the draw hose inside the tank is from the radiator.
This photo should give you an idea of how the hoses should route. One heater hose starts kind of under the AC compressor in the intake manifold, the other is the one you already half-installed. This is a '73, but the overflow bottle (or lack thereof) is the only real difference. I believe there's actually a heater-hose bracket that bolts to the front of the passenger's side head, though. This was the biggest photo I could find, unfortunately.
With the car stored outside, I hope that distributor hole isn't sitting open. That's an invitation for trouble, including condensation, dirt, and worst of all, critters. A customer told me of buying a tractor whose seller proudly proclaimed, "I took the spark plugs out when I stored it!" The mouse urine effectively welded the pistons to the bores, themselves pitted badly. Mouse urine is incredibly corrosive stuff.
You can get a specific oil pump priming rod, but it's just a glorified piece of 3/8" hex stock about 15" long. Put it in the oil pump drive, chuck it into the drill, and spin to win. Clockwise for small-block, counter-clockwise on B/RB/Hemi engines. Obviously, you can't do this if you already installed the oil pump/distributor driveshaft/gear assembly, which you shouldn't do until you're ready to install the distributor anyhow.
This photo should give you an idea of how the hoses should route. One heater hose starts kind of under the AC compressor in the intake manifold, the other is the one you already half-installed. This is a '73, but the overflow bottle (or lack thereof) is the only real difference. I believe there's actually a heater-hose bracket that bolts to the front of the passenger's side head, though. This was the biggest photo I could find, unfortunately.
With the car stored outside, I hope that distributor hole isn't sitting open. That's an invitation for trouble, including condensation, dirt, and worst of all, critters. A customer told me of buying a tractor whose seller proudly proclaimed, "I took the spark plugs out when I stored it!" The mouse urine effectively welded the pistons to the bores, themselves pitted badly. Mouse urine is incredibly corrosive stuff.
You can get a specific oil pump priming rod, but it's just a glorified piece of 3/8" hex stock about 15" long. Put it in the oil pump drive, chuck it into the drill, and spin to win. Clockwise for small-block, counter-clockwise on B/RB/Hemi engines. Obviously, you can't do this if you already installed the oil pump/distributor driveshaft/gear assembly, which you shouldn't do until you're ready to install the distributor anyhow.
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
I do remember a hose bracket on the 73, this car it is MIA.
K I'll just clean up my old hoses & stick em in the new cap.
I have a paint cap on the distributer hole, oil pump is in the bottom is buttoned up, all I took out was the distributor, I bought the new repro stock one, is the driveshaft/gear on that or down in the motor?
I know all to well about the little critters, they were everywhere on this car, that's why I have every hole taped off.
I even found nut residue in one of the exhaust ports when I pulled the headers to remove the motor.
Now that winter is coming I'm worried about my rebuilt heater box, there were 3 or 4 nests in it prior!
K I'll just clean up my old hoses & stick em in the new cap.
I have a paint cap on the distributer hole, oil pump is in the bottom is buttoned up, all I took out was the distributor, I bought the new repro stock one, is the driveshaft/gear on that or down in the motor?
I know all to well about the little critters, they were everywhere on this car, that's why I have every hole taped off.
I even found nut residue in one of the exhaust ports when I pulled the headers to remove the motor.
Now that winter is coming I'm worried about my rebuilt heater box, there were 3 or 4 nests in it prior!
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
It's probably still in there if you didn't pull the cam or oil pump. If you look down the distributor hole, you should see the top of the gear. The center will have hole with a slot in the bottom of it for the distributor's tang. The whole things looks like this, but from the hole you won't be able to see anything but the top of the gear. This is in no way an endorsement for Competition Products, it's just the best angle I could find.
I'm glad you've got everything taped shut. It's amazing where those little pricks can force themselves to fit, and the havoc they can wreak once there.
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
uh oh, I did drop the pump out to fix the pickup, but did not take out the cam, could I have messed up that gear shaft?
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
If you had the engine upside-down with the oil pump and the distributor out, I'd be suprised if it didn't fall out.
I guess it's possible you messed it up, but not likely. Barring a fall causing damage or putting the oil pump on with a hammer, about the only thing you'd probably do is misalign the gear teeth. The gear does get installed with the distributor tang in a particular orientation per the FSM, but realistically you can make it run just find with that alignment off by quite a way. I don't like to do that; I follow the FSM. I have five small-block cars and like consistency between them. Obviously, you've only got one with which to concern yourself.
The slot in the oil pump/distributor shaft should point at first intake bolt on the driver's side with the engine at TDC firing. You know it's on firing when you're turning the engine clockwise with your thumb over the open spark plug hole and feel compression. The mark on the balancer should be under the "0" mark on the cover, although I like to have it a wee bit--5-10°--advanced. That's a personal preference, because I'm usually breaking in a cam. The less I have to screw with the timing during break-in, the better.
When the distributor is installed, the rotor should point straight ahead (well, technically at the passenger's side thermostat bolt, but that's splitting hairs). With the rotor sort-of in the right spot, lower the distributor into the engine with the vacuum canister pointing off to the right of engine centerline (it's not critical, just sorta toward the passenger's-side valve cover). Make sure the drive tang engages the pump shaft and that the rotor points straight ahead-ish. You can see the approximate direction in the diagram below (which, unfortunately, is reversed from the above photo):
Fully seat the distributor. Now, rotate the distributor body counter-clockwise until the nearest vane on the reluctor wheel is aligned with the pickup. Cinch down the distributor so it can't move, but don't tighten it fully. You'll need to time it once it's running.
EDIT: With the distributor slot in the oil-pump driveshaft pointing at the first driver's side intake bolt, the distributor rotor will not be once the distributor is installed. They are not aligned with each other. This can be a source of confusion during this process. If you've got the driveshaft pointing the right way, the distributor rotor will be correctly oriented, as long as the tip is pointing toward the front of the engine.
EDIT 2: I'll also add some emphasis on making sure you're at/near TDC firing during this process. If you are not, you will dump fuel into the exhaust system whilst cranking, which will eventually result in a probably-catastrophic backfire. Your mufflers become air-fuel bombs. I've seen a brand-new seam-lock muffler blown apart this way while a flame shot out of the carburetor and quickly removed every single hair on the face half of a friend's head. We were all also deaf for about 10 minutes--it was the loudest backfire ever. The same thing will happen if you are on TDC firing but install the distributor with the tip pointing at the firewall. Boom... loud.
I guess it's possible you messed it up, but not likely. Barring a fall causing damage or putting the oil pump on with a hammer, about the only thing you'd probably do is misalign the gear teeth. The gear does get installed with the distributor tang in a particular orientation per the FSM, but realistically you can make it run just find with that alignment off by quite a way. I don't like to do that; I follow the FSM. I have five small-block cars and like consistency between them. Obviously, you've only got one with which to concern yourself.
The slot in the oil pump/distributor shaft should point at first intake bolt on the driver's side with the engine at TDC firing. You know it's on firing when you're turning the engine clockwise with your thumb over the open spark plug hole and feel compression. The mark on the balancer should be under the "0" mark on the cover, although I like to have it a wee bit--5-10°--advanced. That's a personal preference, because I'm usually breaking in a cam. The less I have to screw with the timing during break-in, the better.
When the distributor is installed, the rotor should point straight ahead (well, technically at the passenger's side thermostat bolt, but that's splitting hairs). With the rotor sort-of in the right spot, lower the distributor into the engine with the vacuum canister pointing off to the right of engine centerline (it's not critical, just sorta toward the passenger's-side valve cover). Make sure the drive tang engages the pump shaft and that the rotor points straight ahead-ish. You can see the approximate direction in the diagram below (which, unfortunately, is reversed from the above photo):
Fully seat the distributor. Now, rotate the distributor body counter-clockwise until the nearest vane on the reluctor wheel is aligned with the pickup. Cinch down the distributor so it can't move, but don't tighten it fully. You'll need to time it once it's running.
EDIT: With the distributor slot in the oil-pump driveshaft pointing at the first driver's side intake bolt, the distributor rotor will not be once the distributor is installed. They are not aligned with each other. This can be a source of confusion during this process. If you've got the driveshaft pointing the right way, the distributor rotor will be correctly oriented, as long as the tip is pointing toward the front of the engine.
EDIT 2: I'll also add some emphasis on making sure you're at/near TDC firing during this process. If you are not, you will dump fuel into the exhaust system whilst cranking, which will eventually result in a probably-catastrophic backfire. Your mufflers become air-fuel bombs. I've seen a brand-new seam-lock muffler blown apart this way while a flame shot out of the carburetor and quickly removed every single hair on the face half of a friend's head. We were all also deaf for about 10 minutes--it was the loudest backfire ever. The same thing will happen if you are on TDC firing but install the distributor with the tip pointing at the firewall. Boom... loud.
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RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
I have to mark this page, wait better yet I'll print it out, not sure how far off a start up attempt is, but it's a lot closer after the last few weeks!