Rusty's not very quiet cuda progress

That's plant-wide production. I would ask then Oct 12 of what year. It can make a difference. TSeems like the model year changed over in November?

I've forgotten what year your car is, let's say it's a 73.

So, if it's Oct of 72, it's early in the cycle, you've got a high production # (271058), so you can be pretty sure you fall after that date.

But if it's Oct of 73 it's late in the cycle and more info is needed.
 
The scheduled production date (SPD) will be on the fender tag or build sheet
Despite common belief, that code is neither the date the car was built nor scheduled to be built. It's the date the order number was added to the production schedule (Production, Date Scheduled). No, I repeat no Chrysler product was ever built on the code on the data tag. The SPD for my '73 Challenger was 122; it was built February 9th per the window sticker (which I have). The actual build date only appeared on the bottom of the window sticker, which was printed when the car came off the line. There is no way to know the build date without the original window sticker. The last known Hemi car built has neither the latest SPD nor the highest sequence number, but the original window sticker shows a build date of 0731.

It's a long read, but you can learn about it here. Yes, they even tested the paper on which the window sticker was printed to verify it as original.

In general, the SPD is pretty accurate to within 2-3 weeks.

Last 5 are production #, it is high, I think they only build 31K that year?
Remember, though, the sequence number doesn't apply to a particular model, it only indicates which car it was in the original build sequence (and per the above-linked article, not necessarily indicative of when the car was completed). Hamtramck also built A-bodies and Challengers, both of which are interspersed with E-bodies in the number sequence.
Referring back to my '73 Challenger, that car's sequence number was 3309xx and it was built February 9th. Yeah, it's a different production year but applying some simple math to my sequence/date built versus your sequence, I'm relatively confident the car would've been built more than 73 days after the start of production.

For model-year 1974, a Federal law was enacted that would not allow a car to start until front-seat passengers were wearing their seatbelts. All cars were built this way initially (Ford, GM, and everyone else too), but the law was rescinded fairly quickly, after senators and representatives bought new cars and were annoyed to find it applied to them as well. Apparently they didn't want to wear their seatbelts either. This may have something to do with the date change in the application, but that's just a guess.

If your car was built whilst that law was still in effect, it would've had something like this under the hood originally:

s-l1600.jpg


Pushing that red button would allow the car to be started without the seatbelts engaged--once. After the car was started, it reset itself and would need to be pushed again before the car would start unless occupied front seats had their seatbelts engaged. Anyhow, the override switch changed on November 16th, not in October, but was still used for awhile. If you have wires coming from under the seats, and from the seat belts, your car was definitely built with it.
It's entirely possible that some of the underhood wiring butchery on your car was because of that idiotic interlock. My Challenger definitely it; the switch is out in the garage somewhere, never to be used again. In fact, I think I ordered a '73 engine harness simply because I didn't want to deal with the interlock nonsense, although it's easily bypassed. I may need to do some re-pinning at the bulkhead, but I haven't looked at it yet.
 
OK, I do have an under-seat harness, but that switch was not noticed by me.
I do have one seat sensor, but I think it came off the seats I got for the 73 from fast fish racing, might even be from scat pack days?
I'll try that call tuesday & see if year one knows which is which.

Now if I get the one WITHOUT the cutoff, will it still plug into my firewall box & work?
 
Now What?
Excellent question.

I'm looking into the interlock nonsense at the moment. The bulkhead disconnect did change between '73 and '74 in terms of pin locations. I don't want anything that even smells like that interlock system on my car, and I know I bought a '74 dash harness completely forgetting about the interlock setup.
Does your dash harness have a green or blue plastic module, maybe 2"x4" and fairly thin? Or the wide, flat connectors that would go into it? My original harness did and the interlock module was still on it, broken no less.

InterlockPlugs.jpg

InterlockModule.jpg
 
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That piece does not look familiar at all, I will look under there next time I get out there.
the multi wire connectors I noticed I think both go to the steering column neither is very thin, pretty sure double rows of pins I'll check & I'll shoot some pics under there to see what makes sense, if anything will make sense now!

I'm kinda remembering back in the day my "Cuda had a buzzer system I think, with a little light on the side of the gauge panel. But I could start it without belts & I wasn't under the hood much but I don't recall the reset switch either.
This car has that same light I have to see if I can see what's printed on the lens if anything?
 
the multi wire connectors I noticed I think both go to the steering column neither is very thin, pretty sure double rows of pins I'll check & I'll shoot some pics under there to see what makes sense, if anything will make sense now!
The ones of which you're thinking are for the turn signal and ignition switches. They have angled ends. The ones for the interlock aren't as wide, and I believe they have flat terminals (but I'm not sure).

I'm kinda remembering back in the day my "Cuda had a buzzer system I think, with a little light on the side of the gauge panel. But I could start it without belts & I wasn't under the hood much but I don't recall the reset switch either.
This car has that same light I have to see if I can see what's printed on the lens if anything?
The little round seatbelt light was used on all of 'em starting in 1972, on the right side of the cluster where only the driver could see it (that's where it is on the Rallye dash; I think it's in the same place on yours).

Comparing the '73 and '74 bulkhead disconnects, it's not just a simple re-pin job. The '73 uses the bulkhead for AC wiring while the '74 doesn't. Where the '73 is wired for the "AC motor", the '74 has a tach wire. Where the '73 is wired for the AC clutch, the '74 is wired for the seat-belt interlock. Despite the service manual showing the interlock module, there are no hints as to what lies inside. My broken one is definitely a circuit board, but I've never looked closely at it. I thought it was a later delay wiper module (which looks very similar around '81 or so). If I can find it, I might break it open and see what I can reverse engineer.

I believe the "kill switch" in your wiring is actually there to replace the seat-belt override switch. It seems yellow was the favored color for the interlock wiring. Was it on/near the driver's side inner fender?

I'm still workin' on this to see what workarounds I can devise. I believe the interlock system is integral with the neutral safety switch wiring. If you don't mind bypassing the NSS, apparently simply grounding its terminal on the starter relay will bypass the whole show. However, the car will also start in gear at that point.
 
Kill switch was mounted under the dash, but the wires were in the bay I think near the starter relay.
let me see what's out there (dash harness) that didn't look messed with at all.
If we know what I have it might be easier to figure what to do?
 
Looking at the NHTSA rules, the interlock system requirement wasn't rescinded until 10/31/74, meaning your original car had it installed. Whether the dealer or someone else defeated it, I don't know, but it was definitely built with it.

Now back to our regularly-scheduled, consterned inspection of 1974 wiring diagrams. One whole plug on that module is reserved for the seatbelt and seat switches. The other side I'm still trying to decipher, but it appears that stupid module actually feeds the ignition switch, rather than just act as an interrupt after the switch. It does both. Sheesh.
 
I think I will try & trace back from the plug by the door switch the connects to the under-seat wiring & see where those wires go.
 
I think the wiring that connects to the seat and belt switches is its own separate harness, but I'm not sure. I need to go dig out my harness tote and determine what's in there, aside from the new Year One harness. I have a decent '72 dash harness that came with my Rallye cluster which won't have any of this interlock silliness, but I'd really rather not use it.
 
So I started with the connection by the door where the seat harness plugs in, really couldn't trace they went right into the bigger wrap of wires, but do think they went to the bulkhead.

Now, the rest of the story!
The mystery tidbit is the plug at the bulkhead that goes to the neutral safety & I think the starter relay.
Bulkhead harness & old neutral safty................
20230903_123613.jpg

With your new safty harness...................20230903_123236.jpgNow in a bag, clearly my markings on it I found another, but the note says A/C wire goes to open pin?
This one is one piece right to the bulk head & has the wire over to the starter relay.
I'm not even sure where it came from, the 73 was NO A/C, & I do remember taking the first neutral safty with the 3 separate plugs off the tranny. 20230903_123422.jpg
These were in the same bag? 20230903_123837.jpg20230903_123849.jpg& I found the plug they used for the distributor! 20230903_124016.jpg
 
So if this is all separate from the engine harness, I guess they put that reset switch in the engine harness?
I hope year one can actually tell me what the difference in the 2 is?
 
The studs have arrived, bought both outer threads, I had a course nut & I think I have the original finer thread one off my old starter hardware. this way I'm covered! 20230903_173502.jpg
 
So I went back to year one to see if there was a more info section on the harnesses, nadda!
Remembered herbs had some so I checked there & at least got some good pics.

OK this is weird, pics are in my folder, but when I go to download here thy don't show up???

Niether one has that secondary connector with a ton of wires off it?
 
According to the factory wiring diagrams, in '74 the AC (dark blue) and blower motor (dark green) wires go through a separate grommet in the firewall rather than pass through the bulkhead connector (shown in the oval below). At no point do either have any involvement with the neutral safety/backup harness, which makes sense because those are grounding circuits, not 12V feeds. I added the four HVAC junctions shown and their locations on the RH side of the wiring diagram. Other than those four 1-terminal (2-wire at the low-pressure switch) connectors, they're direct runs from the switch and blower resistor respectively.
(Chrysler refers to the blower motor as the "air conditioner motor" in the diagam)

HVAC1.jpg


So I went back to year one to see if there was a more info section on the harnesses, nadda!
Remembered herbs had some so I checked there & at least got some good pics.

Niether one has that secondary connector with a ton of wires off it?
The two multiple-pin connections are in the dash harness, not the engine harness. The interlock module has 8-pin and 9-pin flat plugs (I posted the factory schematic in post #3165) and is mounted on the rear left of the dashboard, mentioned in the diagram. The interlock override button is mounted in the engine bay on the left inner fender and has far less wires.


As far as your linked photos go, the 72RWA is a '72-'73 wiring harness. The 74BJA is the '74-style harness, which they seem to think has a cutoff date (and may well have). Look at the left side of the 74BJA photo. See all that yellow wiring? That's for the interlock cars. The two-yellow-wire connector at far left is for the starter relay, while the next connector over is for the interlock override switch.

The problem is, there's no "early" wiring diagram shown in the 1974 service manual, nor are there early/late dates on interlock parts (other than a change in the override button later in the year). As mentioned above, the interlock wiring uses two cavities in the bulkhead disconnect for very different purposes than earlier cars. Your car's been modified so much I have no way of what you've got, but that mess of yellow wiring from your engine bay suggests the interlock was there at one point. Your dash harness should have the plugs for the module, if that's the case (they'd have been up behind the heater controls somewhere originally). Your car has the seat and belt switches, too. On the flip side, your HVAC wiring doesn't seem to have a grommet on it, and does look like it was in the bulkhead disconnect instead.

I know this: My sequence number is 165,000 lower than yours, and my car seems to have had the interlock. I still have an original dash harness with the module hanging off it that came with the car. The interlock mandate wasn't repealed federally until October of 1974, well after the last '74 rolled off the line in July and half a year after the last E-body was built. I can't say what was done to your car over the years. Maybe it was sold by a savvy dealer or it was swapped out sometime in the decades between delivery day and you buying it.

Question, though: Were the blower motor and the AC working when you bought the car? Did you think to test either?
 
OK, yes the yellow wires seem to be in that system, I see none of the connectors for that module under the dash.
Don't remember if the blower worked, there was 3 wires going to it but only 2 on the actual motor.
the A/c did not work.

I circled the double connector I was referring to below, the first is a parts harness Mr340 gave me, the back of the circled piece is fried.

20230901_151621.jpg
This is what was in the car, where they ran most off the bulk head separately & put one into the secondary connector???

20230901_151710.jpg
 
Keep in mind: The start wire for the starter relay was yellow either way. On the interlock cars, there are two wires in the single connector. Non-interlock cars should only have one.

Take a look at your bulkhead plugs and compare them to this diagram:

74bulkhead.jpg

Hold the plugs up to the bulkhead connector to figure this out. If the following items are all true:
  • Your dark-green blower-motor wire was in Cavity 4
  • Your dark-blue AC wire was in Cavity 20
  • You have a yellow wire in Cavity 9
  • There's a brown wire in Cavity 19, and
  • Everything worked before you took it apart
then you have the '73-style wiring harness in your dash. Those four positions changed between 1973 and '74. The rest of the wiring didn't change. Based on your notes taped to the wiring, it appears this is the setup you have. The wiring in the interior, lacking the two long flat multi-wire plugs, is also indicative of no interlock.

On the other hand, if Cavity 9 has a black wire and Cavity 19 has a yellow wire with a tracer stripe, that's the interlock-style disconnect, and the blower and AC clutch probably weren't working prior to disassembly.

That's about the best I can do for you at the moment.
 
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I thank you, your spending more time researching my crap than working on your car!
I will check the bulk head & shoot a few pics under the dash.
My service manual is from a 73, so I can parouse that a bit too,
 

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