My 71 Duster work in progress

[b-body-bob]

He starts with dry lifters, so the valves aren't opening/closing.

Then he snugs all the rockers down to where the pushrod spins but drags, then turns the engine 90* and any rockers where the lifter is falling down the ramp will loosen up, so you snug those up and just keep doing that 90* at a time until you've gone around 2x or more and they're all snug (as in no pre-load but right there).

Then you turn them all 3/4 turn to set the pre-load. Now you can prime the oil system to pump up the lifters.

So you don't have to mess with figuring out what rocker to tighten up, or keep track of what comes next, you just do them all around and around. You only need to be careful to not go too far tightening them up in the process and it seems like you'd be good to go.

 

[Dr.Jass]

That sounds quite wrong. "Falling down the ramp" is no measure of where to take slack out. The lifter must be on the base circle of the lobe period during the adjustment for that rocker. If it's not, you have no way of knowing what your actual preload is, unless of course you're measuring how depressed into its lifter each pushrod cup is as you're doing it. The pushrod cups' height will vary dependent on how much force they're resisting (i.e. the valve they're trying to lift or lower). Hydraulic lifters are not bottomed out prior to the introduction of oil pressure. They're spring-loaded, and a lot of force is required to depress that cup fully.

"Intake opening, exhaust closing." Do one cylinder at a time. I start on the #1 exhaust valve. Rotate the engine until the #1 intake valve is closing and adjust the exhaust lash (preload). Rotate the engine again until the exhaust valve you just adjusted starts to open, and adjust the intake. I go right down the banks, doing numbers 3, 5, and 7, next, then repeating on the other side.

When a cylinder's intake valve is closing its exhaust valve has to be on its base circle. When its exhaust valve is opening, its intake will always be on its base circle. No jumping around, no wondering whether you did that one or the one next to it, and no stupid chart. Best of all, it's about 3x faster than any other method, which is why race teams do it that way.

 

[b-body-bob]

I was planning on doing it the way I did it on my 440, which was Intake opening, exhaust closing. The last thing I need is problems at startup caused by trying something new.

The video still made sense to me because once you've snugged the adjuster down on the pushrod to where you're at zero preload, and keep snugging it down for the ones that loosen up (the lifter is heading toward the heel of the cam), eventually you end up with them all at zero preload and you can set the preload by counting turns.

I'm sure it takes a certain "feel" for getting it right to get it right but that's kind of true in any case. It's hard to tell when you've pushed the cup down into the lifter body. I spent a lot of time wiggling things around feeling for that exact place where it's in the cup but not down into the lifter.

 

[Dr.Jass]

That's the trick with the stock adjusters--there's no "feel" while snugging down, because you need to use a wrench. With locknut-style adjusters, you freehand 'em to snug on the lifter. Mechanical advantage of threads be damned, you're not depressing that lifter cup by spinning the adjuster with your fingers.

I was planning on doing it the way I did it on my 440, which was Intake opening, exhaust closing.

I think you have that backward. The intake is opening while the exhaust is closing (overlap). It should be "intake closing, exhaust opening" i.e. working on just either side of the compression and power strokes--when one valve will absolutely be closed.

 

[b-body-bob]

I think you have that backward.

Before I put the valvetrain together I woulda printed what you wrote up there ^^ anyway.

It's stiff turning the adjusters with a 1/4" ratchet, and I like it that way since there's no locknuts.

One thing I do that I picked up from building bicycle wheels is to put a piece of tape around my driver so the two ends stuck together stick out and act like a pointer to keep track of the partial turns.

 

[b-body-bob]

I almost got the floor cleared out enough to fit a car in the working garage so I brought the Duster over, raised it up, and started draining.

I'm going to drop the transmission out first, then lift the engine out. I'll be working alone of course. I don't know how hard it's going to be to get to the bellhousing bolts. The engine slants down front to back so maybe that will help. It's on elephant ears so I don't expect it to sag much once the transmission mount is out.

Hopefully, that will all be done this weekend. Realistically, I'm 62 and working alone so

I'm also debating putting a hydro clutch in it while the engine bay is empty.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

Hopefully, that will all be done this weekend. Realistically, I'm 62 and working alone so

Wait!
71 and mostly working alone, I think I had to rest my arms more than use them when I was under the dash yesterday, does take some of the fun of a minor accomplishment away.

OK dummy here, what's a hydro clutch?

 

[Dr.Jass]

A hydraulic clutch actuation setup, as opposed to the factory linkage actuation.

 

[b-body-bob]

Wait!
71 and mostly working alone, I think I had to rest my arms more than use them when I was under the dash yesterday, does take some of the fun of a minor accomplishment away.

I'm telling you. I laid down under it and started trying to work the lower hose off and just said to heck with this. It seems like my skin is thinner and my nerves are more sensitive, and there's no room to twist and pull without banging into stuff.

OK dummy here, what's a hydro clutch?

Hydraulic

Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists

 

[b-body-bob]

This is a better link to the kit
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists

The hydraulic throwout bearing clamps to the input shaft collar that's on every A-833. If you measure it right so there is the correct clearance between it and the clutch diaphragm, and it doesn't slip, it will operate the clutch without mechanical linkage. The hydraulic hoses pass through the clutch fork hole in the side of the bellhousing. The master cylinder has an adjustable mount to adapt to the firewall angle and it attaches to the factory linkage from the pedal.

 

[68R/T]

Hopefully, that will all be done this weekend. Realistically, I'm 62 and working alone so

Wait!
71 and mostly working alone, I think I had to rest my arms more than use them when I was under the dash yesterday, does take some of the fun of a minor accomplishment away.

You young pups complaining about spinning wrenches at your young ages. When I'm not moving I'm thinking about the next thing to do.

 

[Dr.Jass]

I guess I've never seen any advantage or benefit to hydraulic clutch linkage where a factory mechanical setup is an option. Any "mechanical advantage" that would make clutch disengagement easier is actually a function of the diaphragm clutch you're forced to run, not the hydraulics. The fact that you're limited to a diaphragm clutch speaks to its fragility--Dodge trucks used hydraulic actuation with brutal 11"-14" Borg & Beck clutches for years without issue (with plenty of required pedal pressure, no less)--but this setup can't survive one? Worse, a hydraulic component failure leaves you with only one option yet again: calling Dr. Hook, then the wait for replacement parts to ship. Conversely, Stee-retch recently had a mechanical linkage incident in a parking lot but was able to get himself roadworthy in about 15 minutes.

I have '70-'72 pedals and linkage in my Valiant with a McLeod Borg & Beck-style pressure plate. The clutch is easier to modulate, and requires less effort, than either the OE hydraulically-actuated diaphragm clutch in my old V6 Dakota or EFI Ed's 11" Centerforce. It has greater clamping load, too, without the mushy feedback-free feel of a diaphragm clutch. It's literally less of a leg-buster while still managing to feel like an actual clutch. Of course, like all Mopars it's got a giant over-center spring to assist with clutch disengagement. All the wearing parts in the linkage got new, well-lubricated replacements, and all the metal-to-metal contact points were lubricated with Slip-Plate #2 (rhat stuff's magic, I tell ya). Everyone that's pushed that pedal has been startled by how light it is for a relatively-stout clutch.

I didn't even have pedals when I started, and the complete setup from pedal pad to throwout bearing was considerably less expensive than that hydraulic kit. The only failure-prone parts in the factory linkage are that stupid rubber bushing where the pushrod meets the clutch fork, and the countershaft (Z-bar) itself. The latter's only a problem with a hairball clutch (which you won't be running) and the former is an easy factory fix: part #2401740. It's an OE truck part that replaces the crappy rubber bushing with a formed steel ball. Not only is it indestructible, it improves pedal effort and feel. Yep, it's expensive (at least on eBay) but it's worth every nickel. I won't assemble a linkage without one.




The easiest, and probably best option if someone wants a light pedal would be to use a diaphragm clutch with factory mechanical linkage (including the ball upgrade), then remove the over-center spring from the pedal. The "replacement" clutches offered by most manufacturers (Perfection, Valeo, LUK) these days are diaphragm-style. Perfection even offers a "high clamp load" option under part number 30027, whoring the once-proud Zoom name in the process. The OE linkage will live forever and a day with the light load of a diaphragm clutch and no over-center spring, and the clutch itself should be smooth and easy to disengage. And mushy, because diaphragm.

 

[68R/T]

I guess I've never seen any advantage or benefit to hydraulic clutch linkage where a factory mechanical setup is an option.

I've had cars, (and bikes) with both hydraulic & mechanical actuation clutches. The ONLY advantage that comes to mind is a hydraulic perpetually adjusts itself at each usage. (How often do you need to adjust your clutch?)

On motorcycles hydraulics are a Godsend vs cable. Cables tend to come with plastic coating on the cables to prevent rust. But that plastic soon wears away allowing rust to build and either snap or seize the cable. And driving a clutch-less bike is a little more difficult than a clutch-less car. Plus hydraulics having the "self adjusting" benefit.

 

[Dr.Jass]

The self-adjusting aspect is because the slave cylinder will only retract as far as the pressure plate pushes the throwout bearing, hence only returning that much fluid to the reservoir. Essentially, it's forever "riding the clutch" with the bearing on the fingers/levers. The factory setup uses a fork return spring to keep the bearing off the fingers/levers. I know nothing of bikes, but would expect a car to have decreased life on a more-expensive bearing (it may be a miniscule difference in reality). I can live with adjusting my clutch every few years.... it's far easier than dropping the transmission and pressing a new bearing onto the slave and far less expensive than an entire new slave assembly.

 

[b-body-bob]

When I'm not moving I'm thinking about the next thing to do

I do a lot of thinking about what I should do too. I'm doing it right now

I guess I've never seen any advantage or benefit to hydraulic clutch linkage where a factory mechanical setup is an option.

The reason I'm considering a hydraulic setup is the condition of my hips and knees and the fact it's not going to get any better going forward.

The easiest, and probably best option if someone wants a light pedal would be to use a diaphragm clutch with factory mechanical linkage (including the ball upgrade), then remove the over-center spring from the pedal.

That's the plan if not hydraulic. The last 4 speed here had a Centerforce setup in it and it worked great. Way more expensive than other options though. I plan to consult with Brewer's before I buy.

 

[b-body-bob]

I don't know how hard it's going to be to get to the bellhousing bolts.

I looked and it seems like I can get to the hard-to-get bolts at the top from under the hood. It will take about a million tiny turns each but at least I can get to them. They look to be hidden by the pinch weld but I haven't paid attention while underneath. It would definitely be easier if I can get a socket/swivel/extension/ratchet on them.

 

[b-body-bob]

As far as pulling the engine, I guess I'll just bolt a lift plate to the intake, hook on, take out the slack, and unbolt it from the ears at the water pump ,then unbolt the ears from the chassis.

I'd rather unbolt the ears from the chassis and lift them out as one piece, but they're wider than the metal work above them so that won't work.

 

[b-body-bob]

A lot of parts came off yesterday. Not as many as I'd hoped, but a lot of it.

My nephew came over and got all worried about the elephant ears if I let the motor hang on them without the transmission. I don't think they're going to break but they look like they're already bent from someone doing that. I've got about an inch between the pan and center link so I'm hoping a piece of wood jammed in there will hold it up.

You can see it in this photo if you line it up with the oil filter and oil pump.


I'm still not sure what end of those things needs to be unbolted to get the engine out safely and without starting over.

 

[Dr.Jass]

A lot of parts came off yesterday. Not as many as I'd hoped, but a lot of it.

My nephew came over and got all worried about the elephant ears if I let the motor hang on them without the transmission. I don't think they're going to break but they look like they're already bent from someone doing that. I've got about an inch between the pan and center link so I'm hoping a piece of wood jammed in there will hold it up.

You can see it in this photo if you line it up with the oil filter and oil pump.

The block of wood seems as good an idea as any. Your other option would be a bottle jack or jack stand under the pan with a piece of wood there.

If anything, that ear looks to me like it's bent forward, as if someone tried to lift the back of the engine with the ears bolted solid.

I'm still not sure what end of those things needs to be unbolted to get the engine out safely and without starting over.

My solution would probably be to get the weight of the engine on the hoist, then break out the reciprocating saw or angle grinder w/cutoff wheel.
If for some reason you want to save them, once the crane is holding the engine's weight I'd think it's be easiest to free them from the frame side and lift 'em out with the engine. If that proves not to be the case, you've only got six more bolts to remove the water pump/housing assembly. There's no reason or need to pull the pump from the houing.

 

[b-body-bob]

The block of wood seems as good an idea as any. Your other option would be a bottle jack or jack stand under the pan with a piece of wood there.

If anything, that ear looks to me like it's bent forward, as if someone tried to lift the back of the engine with the ears bolted solid.


My solution would probably be to get the weight of the engine on the hoist, then break out the reciprocating saw or angle grinder w/cutoff wheel.
If for some reason you want to save them, once the crane is holding the engine's weight I'd think it's be easiest to free them from the frame side and lift 'em out with the engine. If that proves not to be the case, you've only got six more bolts to remove the water pump/housing assembly. There's no reason or need to pull the pump from the houing.

The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced I can just unbolt those two bolts from the frame and jog it around a little to get it above the frame rail on the side that's not notched.

On the bottle jack, I can't do that because the front of the car needs to be up in the air to get the trans down, and then it needs to be back on the ground with the rear end up in the air to lift the engine out. I'm pretty sure the piece of wood will work to support it enough to finish the job.

Everything's disconnected from the engine now, and the transmission has quit dripping after the first round of loosening up the pan bolts. That always makes a heckuva mess and I noticed I'm almost out of oil dry (cat litter) so I'm taking a break to get those.

Got a recommendation on FABO to pull the engine first. at first I thought that seems like a hassle, but then thought, it really doesn't make any difference, does it? Either way I have to unbolt the trans and converter.

I've got a HF trans jack so getting the trans out of the chassis is not a big deal. Put the jack under/on the trans, raise it up a smidge, drop the x-member, then lower the jack until the engine is sitting on the board and unbolt the trans from the engine.. I've already removed the two bolts at the top so getting to those isn't an issue.