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Moving right along...

I tore into and completely disassembled the '65 A-body 4-speed tonight. It's almost a shame I had to do it, it's so nice inside. The front bearing had been replaced previously, as had the 3-4 shift fork from the looks of things, and it was full of ATF rather than gear oil. The synchronizers, rings, and dogs are in great shape, with just a little bit of sharp edges on the brass teeth. The gears are flawless. Everything was clean and rolled with amazing smoothness, but alas, it had to come apart to change the mainshaft and tailshaft housing to a slip-yoke arrangement. I already bought all the new replacement wear items, though, so they'll be installed upon reassembly in the '68 case. I'll save the parts from this one for a lesser trans, should the need arise.

All the markings on the speed and cluster gears reinforced what we'd determined at the swap meet: It's definitely the 3.09:1 first, close-ratio gearset. That first gear had me rethinking the 4.10s for the track, since the overall final-drive ratio in first is 12.669:1. That's the equivalent of a 4.76:1 axle gear with the '70-older 2.66 gear, or a staggering 5.17:1 with an A904/A727, or the '71-up close-ratio 4-speed. Keep in mind, we're talking about a short, sub-26" rear tire on this car. That's gonna require a very quick 1-2 shift, not far from the starting line, even shifting at 7,400RPM.

Then I thought to myself, "Self, if I can make this thing hook, first gear's gonna be an endless fucking laugh riot." So, 4.10s it is. :dance: Besides, it's not like I don't have more-sane gears lying around that can be swapped in what, half an hour?

I took a few pictures of it after it was apart, but I forgot the camera in the garage... so nothing to post at the moment. :D
 
Not only do you gain the torque multiplication with the deep first gear, there is another advantage many people don't think of. Because of the deep ratio your rear tires aren't spinning as fast as they would with taller gears. Therefore traction is achieved sooner because of slower wheel rotation. :cool:
 
I experienced similar 1st gear jump with a TR7 I built years ago. A mildly built sbc adapted to the t50 with a 3.32 first gear and a 3.90 rear with 24" tall 265/50 x 14" tires. Very little tire spin and about 30 mph top in 1st gear. But 2nd gear was something to behold when you grabbed it at 7,500 rpm. [smilie=2:

The TR7 weighed in less than your Val, but you'll be running more power with similar 1st gear final. :cool: AND it's a Mopar.
 
Somanombotch, I have to disassemble yet another transmission to complete the A833 for this car. :doh:

When I was taking apart the '65 transmission, I noticed a groove in the input shaft. I didn't think much about it at first, because it looks as if it's machined into the shaft. However, I got a little curious so I talked to Wayne at Brewer's Performance about it. He seemed a little confused by my description, saying that there's a groove near the splines on the pilot end that identifies it as a 3.09-first transmission. I told him it was behind the splines, in the area of the bearing retainer. He said he'd never seen such a groove, so that got me a tad worried. He advised me to use a different input based on the abuse the car will see.

I initially wanted use the input from the '68 transmission whose case is getting the '65 gearset, but something odd was stuck in my head about the A833: All the 23-spline transmissions use the same first speed gear on the mainshaft, regardless of first-gear ratio. That's what generated my call to Brewer's. The difference in the final drive in first gear is actually determined by the ratio between the main drive pinion (on the input shaft) and its mating gear on the countershaft. As bizarre as it seems, the 3.09 transmission uses different second- and third-gear speed gears to maintain the same ratios in those positions as the 2.66:1 transmissions. Simply put, I need an input from another 3.09 transmission.

Luckily, I can use the input shaft and pinion from an A833OD. Unfortunately, what that means is that I've got to cannibalize one of my overdrives. It needs to be a later aluminum-case one, since the early iron overdrives used a "high helix" gearset to reduce noise, and as such the input pinion will not mesh correctly with the countershaft gear. To be honest, I'd rather cannibalize one of the alloy-case units anyhow since I've got an evil plan for a future project involving a modified aluminum case. However, since the overdrive trans will remain apart anyhow, I'm thinking I might just go ahead and use the alloy tailshaft housing from the overdrive transmission on the Valiant transmission. It never hurts to shave a few pounds. :dance:
 
Four overdrive transmissions here willing to donate an input shaft, and damned if three of 'em ain't the high-helix gearset. :doh: I ended up disassembling the truck long-tail OD I had to cannibalize what turned out to be an excellent donor piece. Closer inspection of the original '65 gear shows I was wrong about the groove; I was making more of what I saw than what was there. However, that same inspection showed the shaft had suffered some corrosion over the years. There were some pits and low spots that did not inspire confidence, so I went ahead with the shaft swap.

Someone had been inside the truck OD prior to my ownership. There was red silicone on every gasket surface, gaskets themselves be damned. The internals are in fine shape, so I'm wondering if it developed a weep-type leak and someone just went bonkers with the goo. The reason I think that might be the case is because the transmission was factory-filled with ATF, and there was still some in there along with a bunch of gear oil. Let me tell you, if you hate the smell of used gear oil, it pales in comparison with the same substance mixed with ATF and run together. The stench is pretty, uh, special. Gack.

The procedure for taking apart the overdrive is a bit different than the close-ratio, especially if the close-ratio has a small (307) front bearing. The small-bearing input shaft has to come out through the inside of the case because the synchronizer's tooth diameter is larger than the bearing bore itself. The countershaft has to be removed and the cluster gear moved to the lower RH corner of the case to allow clearance for the input shaft. So the mainshaft has to come out of the transmission first, both to knock out the countershaft and allow the input shaft to move rearward. In the overdrive trans the large (308) bearing input just slides right out the front, but because the overdrive is actually in the third-gear position, the mainshaft will not come out with the countershaft in place. The speed gear for overdrive is just way too large a diameter to clear its giant counterpart on the cluster. It sounds like the same procedure but it's not. First of all, the floating countershaft used in the overdrive trans presents its own challenge: The cupped plug at the front. It sits in a stepped bore, and it's very happy there, having galled itself in place for 30+ years. I ended up drilling the little prick to pry it out. Driving the countershaft out--simple in a close-ratio because the mainshaft and tailshaft housing can just slide out past the cluster gear--can only be accomplished with the tailshaft housing rotated to a particular position. Once the countershaft is out, the cluster gear must once again go to the lower RH corner of the case to allow the overdrive gear on the cluster to clear the 3-4 synchronizer teeth on the mainshaft. :doh: Then the mainshaft can be pulled out the back of the case. Confusing? yeah, it's even more confusing when you're trying to figure it out after your established disassembly procedure suddenly doesn't work.

As an additional downer, the sole all-aluminum short-tail (A/F-body) transmission I have uses the 26-spline output, so I can't even transplant the alloy tailshaft housing onto the transmission I'm building for the Valiant, which uses the much-stronger 30-spline yoke. I'm not surprised; the 30-spline aluminum tailshaft is rare as hen's teeth--and expensive as hell if you find one. I was just hoping mine was early enough to have it, since it's a high-helix box and both of my cast-iron high-helix A/F overdrives have the 30-spline output (as does the truck overdrive). You get only one guess as to which OD mainshaft that slightly-damaged '65 input shaft will eventually marry.

Now I've just gotta get our man Stretch to press the 308 bearing off the overdrive input shaft and press on the 307, and I can get to assembling this goofy mutt of a transmission. :dance:
 
Been in a similar situation, but with only half as many transes and one less gear while swapping the innards from your old 400 close ratio 3-speed into a wide ratio six banger case. I wouldn't quit until everything was finished, lest I forget what I was doing. :doh:
 
Dr.Jass said:
Now I've just gotta get our man Stretch to press the 308 bearing off the overdrive input shaft and press on the 307, and I can get to assembling this goofy mutt of a transmission. :dance:
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Didn't I do that already?:shifty:
 
I walk by this little car every day. I find myself needing to find the time to work on it.
Pitter Patter! Lets get at 'er!
 
That's a hard no... Pitter patter, let's get at 'er. Love the town of Letterkenney...


Progress. We want to see progress, on this vehicle. Nicely done with the floors :)
 
Dr.Jass said:
As delivered, it had a Hurst aluminum T-handle on it, which is pretty old-school cool but to me didn't really fit the character of the car. A quick check of the Core Shifters website landed me a 100% correct white shift knob that would've been original for the car. If you're not familiar with Core Shifters, they buy up Hurst's old stock parts and assemble them, as well as producing discontinued Hurst products. I found out about them when I bought the shifter for my Dakota--they still make and sell the long-discontinued Hurst AX-15 shifters as well as many others, including those for NV transmissions.
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I read this thread before and failed to notice the mention of Core Shifters, so I pulled up their site and found this.
https://core-shifters.com/collectio...dodge-ram-w-nv5600-getrag-6-speed-cummins-v10
I notice it says short throw, while I'm not holding my breath on that specifically, I notice that it has the same (hopefully) bolt in for a Pistol Grip shifter. :giggedy: I believe a '70 B body bench seat handle will work in my truck. Yes, I will be ordering one of these for my old pile of a work truck and I will acquire the appropriate handle next summer.
 
Dr.Jass said:
The closest match for '68 red is the Krylon, sadly. International Harvester red, in fact. It's accepted by show judges at the national level. Yes, I researched it that far. :D The Mopar Performance or Dupli-Color reds will actually cost you points. They're not "brick" enough, for lack of a better term.
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I used this on the Durango's new engine. Looks good enough to me, at least it isn't black...
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Ole...oss-Sunrise-Red-Spray-Paint-7762830/100167186
 
dustergal said:
Do we have a couple of slackers?
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Hey now! I've been working on the drivetrain here at home. Unfortunately, I went a bit mental on stuff I really shouldn't have for this car... like, painting the transmission, which was a lot more work than it sounds. I also went over the rear axle housing with a fine-toothed comb. The bottom end of the 340 is buttoned up, and the next step will be a test for oiling. A previous owner did the "oil restriction" mod but used solid rods instead of tubes. :wtf: I'm honestly not sure if this thing's going to oil the heads, much less the crank for that matter. :doh: So I'll install the pan and put a quart of cheap oil in it, prime the pump, and see what happens. If there's no oil I'll disassemble the shortblock and bring the block into the machine shop to see what, if anything, can be done.

Last weekend I was ready to assemble the rear axle with the initial 3.23 Borg-Warner center, but I had no gasket and no sealant on hand. So I thought to work on the 4.10 Powr-Lok, and realized I had no new clutches or ring-gear bolts. Turning my attention to the 340, I thought maybe I could install the 10qt oil pan, only to be foiled again by a lack of gaskets. Oh, well... I'll just install the head studs. Nope! My ARP stud kit had two wrong studs in it. Discussing this with ARP, I was first told that I ordered the wrong number (I did not) and then that I did not have W2 heads. Their "customer service" solution was to give me the part number for the two studs I needed so I could buy them myself. No matter that I dropped nearly $200 on these glorified bolts--just spend $25 more since we don't know our applications well!

This week I acquired everything I need to accomplish all of the above tasks, but I've apparently come down with the ebola. I feel like death itself and there's not much I want to do (other than lie down or run a drill up my sinuses). The best part, of course, is that due to past lifestyle and subsequent medical transgressions, there is literally nothing I can take to ease this shit. Muscle through it, tough guy, because your liver can't handle even OTC meds. :(
 
ARP didn't fix your issue, they just wanted more money... Nice.

Hope you feel better soon, Jass. Sucks you can't take OTC meds. On a side note, I try not to take any prescription pills or OTC meds, as my stomach goes all weird.

Had an open inguinal hernia surgery last month, and the doc prescribed pain meds, telling me the pain will be intolerable for at least a week, so use them all. I would rather take some pain and be able to crap normally (those pain pills bung me up), especially after a surgery which makes it impossible to push for awhile...

I had a total of 4 out of 40 pills and stopped taking them the day after surgery. Sure, it hurt but I stayed regular! :D
 
I'm the same way about taking pills; I got that from my Dad I guess. They don't affect me physically, I just don't like to take 'em. I had a bunch of teeth pulled a few years back, and the dentist gave me a prescription for 20 pain pills. I still have 17 of them. I took one shortly after having three teeth alongside each other pulled. The second was just prior to going to bed that night--I didn't want to wake up in pain be in agony for 40 minutes waiting for one to kick in--and the third was a full day later. My co-worker got my blood pressure so high the pain was like being smashed in the face with a hammer with every heartbeat. I literally couldn't bear it.

That one visit was the only time I needed 'em... and I didn't like having to take them at all. But I felt better about it after reminding myself the four other visits resulted in my taking no meds whatsoever--including one front tooth that had a root that extended nearly to my eye socket--the root was well over an inch long. It felt like my face was collapsing into my head while he was pulling. The dentist said he'd never seen anything like it, and the other front tooth was normal.

Back to the subject at hand...

I went outside to work on the drivetrain some more yesterday, including assembling the rear axle. First thing I wanted to do was paint the drums, so I grabbed my trusty Pioneer cast-iron paint, popped the cap, and saw a harbinger of how my day would go:

100_1723.JPG
 
A missing spray nozzle... ran into that many times.

After the second or third time, I started keeping spare nozzles in my tool box. Must be a couple dozen in there by now... want me to send you some? ;)
 
restoman said:
...want me to send you some?
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:D Nah, I've got plenty of cans of the same paint. I usually keep several cans of the Pioneer cast iron because it's so good... like, "hard to tell where you've already sprayed" good. It's also proven itself extremely durable. I highly recommend it if you can find a source for it. The part number is T58A.

On the subject of paint: 71ChargerR/T, that's the exact paint I've used since the Krylon Massacre. Excellent stuff, and if anything it's a little more "brick red" than the Krylon was, based on the overspray on every God-forsaken thing in my garage. :doh: I'll go over the valve covers and intake once the engine is together. More on that further down.

I did get some work done yesterday. I knew I was going to be miserable anyhow, so I might was well accomplish something. The rear axle is largely assembled with the 3.23 cone-type diff, which suddenly doesn't turn as smoothly as it once did. :wtf: Not sure what happened there, but it was pre-axle installation so it's nothing with the wheel bearings. I was installing the diff, and it didn't sit flat against the housing flange. I'm not sure how, but when I lifted it back off the gasket tore. Fuck it, I'll just use black sealant! Despite letting it cure for over an hour, it still squished out wet so removing that diff to install the 4.10s ought to be a real hoot. We'll blow up that bridge when we come to it.

Things continued to go downhill from there. During installation of one of the axle seals, the seal driver must've caught the inside edge of the seal bore. Yep, that seal's toast. I absolutely know I've got another seal here, but do you think I can find it? Of course not! Carry on... I installed the other one without issue, which allowed me to get one brake and axle installed. Since I can't find the other seal, and work is too far away, I may walk up to NAPA (horror of horrors) to get another seal so I can finish the axle today. I still don't feel well, but sitting here's accomplishing nothing.

After installing the RH axle, it seemed a good idea to install the LH one temporarily what fer keeping out orangutans and such. Good time to install the wheel studs, I say! So that's done as well, along with painting the drums--which somewhere along the way became a secondary concern. The reason I'd like to get the axle seal today is that once the axles and brakes are both installed, I can install the new brake lines along with the freshly-detailed axle vent and brake tee. Beyond that, I want to change the U-joint yoke out for one of my 7290 units. Anything else axle-related will have to happen at the car. We want to set the pinion angle correctly prior to welding on the perches. This, of course, requires the driveshaft I haven't got--so once we've got the axle tentatively bolted in place, I need to order one of those... which I can't do without, y'know, having the transmission in place. Which would be easier with the engine. :doh:

Speaking of the engine, I finished installing head studs yesterday and temporarily installed an oil-filter adapter. I'm going to have to test the oiling system prior to fully assembling the engine to, uh, see if it actually has one. When the guy that built this engine did the oil restriction to the lifters, it appears that he used solid steel. If that's the case, it was the bonehead move of the century (not sure which, since it sat a long time). I'm honestly not sure if this thing will even oil the crank, much less the top end. See, the whole LA oiling system is kinda sorta (absolutely) based entirely on the RH lifter galley, now obviously blocked with what appears to be bar stock. As such, I also put the old mega-roller cam back in place which will allow the heads to oil as well--assuming the system works. If it doesn't, the block is essentially junk unless I can find someone that can remove that bar stock. Checking the oiling is one of those tasks, like messing with those monstrous valve springs, the thought of which causes me to cringe... but it makes no sense to go any further with this engine until I know for sure.

The transmission's done other than final torquing, a quick shot of touch-up paint (I'm such a retard) and installing a new front bearing retainer and output seal. Whilst working on something else, I found the woodruff key for the countershaft. Talk about a couple of minutes of sheer terror! I actually conversed with myself aloud as to whether I'd forgotten it. If you've never rebuilt an A833, the countershaft is literally one of the first things you've got to do, so if I forgot that key I'd have to essentially disassemble the entire transmission again. Closer inspection of the key showed it was in fact used, and I distinctly remembered installing one using transmission assembly goo. So that's a weight off my shoulders. I think. :D

Wasn't in much of a pitcher-takin' mood yesterday, but here's where I was when I stopped, other than bolting on the other Center Line as additional minimal environmental protection. The wheels are held on with ARP 12-point nuts... turns out I don't have a single 7/16"-20 wheel nut on hand, other than the 10 LH ones that came with the car. :doh:

100_1725.JPG
 
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