Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
I should've been more clear: I was referring to the linkage clips, not the headers.
My 71 Duster work in progress
- Thread starter b-body-bob
- Start date
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Ah, OK
If you get them started right the hammer would work but that's the hard part, maybe because they're new. They want to snap in on with one side of the clip in place and with the other side popping out.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Column in, z-bar in, mounts tight.
The seal tore a little bit at the top there but such is life. It's fine, still tight on the shaft (TWSS).
All that work and still ugly. No not me, the car.
The seal tore a little bit at the top there but such is life. It's fine, still tight on the shaft (TWSS).
All that work and still ugly. No not me, the car.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Mostly put the front end together last night, all bolts loose. Questioning my memory of torsion bar installation - I let the front suspension hang (no upper bumper) and turned the adjuster arm so it was all the way down against the entirely loose adjusting bolt - right? I remember starting one in the wrong place before and needing to take it all back apart.
I'm going to have to drive those bastards in apparently - they stop about 1/2" short of being end, both sides about the same almost like they're meant to do that.
Also, I guess while tightening the motor mounts I ended up with the header against the torsion bar again. Right now I'm just going to act like I didn't see that and try to remember to loosen the mounts and scoot it over a touch after the suspension is in place.
ETA - I can slide the bar back and forth past the header w/ no problem. So saying it's against the torsion bar again isn't as dire as it might have sounded.
I'm going to have to drive those bastards in apparently - they stop about 1/2" short of being end, both sides about the same almost like they're meant to do that.
Also, I guess while tightening the motor mounts I ended up with the header against the torsion bar again. Right now I'm just going to act like I didn't see that and try to remember to loosen the mounts and scoot it over a touch after the suspension is in place.
ETA - I can slide the bar back and forth past the header w/ no problem. So saying it's against the torsion bar again isn't as dire as it might have sounded.
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Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
As long as it's got enough clearance that the engine's tendency to rock toward the passenger's side doesn't create contact, you're probably OK.
However, as someone who's witnessed two torsion bar failures (one in his own car) I can tell you it's a loud, violent event. In both cases, the T-bar came right through the floor--which on my car was rock solid--like it wasn't even there. When mine broke in '99, I was less than half a block from my parents' house travelling less than 25MPH on virtually new pavement. The passenger's side bar just let go with no shock or input. The car continued to go straight. My passenger avoided injury because he reacted so quickly to the sound. He should've been a drag racer.
In the other case, which I think was in '88, a friend and I were on pedal bikes and heard it from a block away, emanating from a rusty Cordoba. The T-bar obliterated the driver's ankle. His foot look like it was only attached by his sock. That feller had no idea what hit him, writhing on the sidewalk yelling. I think he thought he'd be shot. I peered in the car and saw the floor mat looked like a tent. I lifted it, and the broken end of the control-arm section of the bar was sticking up through the floor--a very similar break to mine years later. Ironically, that happened while the feller was leaving the local hospital's driveway. His wife walked back inside to get ER staff. They strolled out with a wheelchair to retrieve him.
When the guy's ankle got broken, I blamed it on the car being a rusty piece of trash. That was not the case with my '72 Rallye at all, so since that one I've inspected torsion bars for sharp dings and heavy scratches before reinstalling them. Anything with a well-defined edge can be smoothed out by dressing with a stone; you don't necessarily need to replace the torsion bar. Look yours over closely before you commit to installing them as-is.
However, as someone who's witnessed two torsion bar failures (one in his own car) I can tell you it's a loud, violent event. In both cases, the T-bar came right through the floor--which on my car was rock solid--like it wasn't even there. When mine broke in '99, I was less than half a block from my parents' house travelling less than 25MPH on virtually new pavement. The passenger's side bar just let go with no shock or input. The car continued to go straight. My passenger avoided injury because he reacted so quickly to the sound. He should've been a drag racer.
In the other case, which I think was in '88, a friend and I were on pedal bikes and heard it from a block away, emanating from a rusty Cordoba. The T-bar obliterated the driver's ankle. His foot look like it was only attached by his sock. That feller had no idea what hit him, writhing on the sidewalk yelling. I think he thought he'd be shot. I peered in the car and saw the floor mat looked like a tent. I lifted it, and the broken end of the control-arm section of the bar was sticking up through the floor--a very similar break to mine years later. Ironically, that happened while the feller was leaving the local hospital's driveway. His wife walked back inside to get ER staff. They strolled out with a wheelchair to retrieve him.
When the guy's ankle got broken, I blamed it on the car being a rusty piece of trash. That was not the case with my '72 Rallye at all, so since that one I've inspected torsion bars for sharp dings and heavy scratches before reinstalling them. Anything with a well-defined edge can be smoothed out by dressing with a stone; you don't necessarily need to replace the torsion bar. Look yours over closely before you commit to installing them as-is.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
That has confused me. The crank turns clockwise doesn't it? Seems like that would want to rock it toward the driver's side.
OK that's it. Selling all my mopars and buying Chevys.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
Newton's third law, my friend. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
The more the engine internals try to push the block, the more the block pushes back. The more the engine tries to drive the flywheel, the more the flywheel pushes back. These cause the engine to rock opposite its crankshaft rotation. Add a drivetrain behind it and the engine rocks even harder to the passenger's side. This is why engine mounts only rip in half on the driver's side, and hency why torque straps and chains are always on the driver's side of the engine.
69.5CUDA
Blah Blah Blah
and exactly why i SWEAR by chains mosre specificaly a full "wrap" thru the k member...ive seen some straps break...and too many stock mounts rip..worst was a buddys 67 fish which in turn locked the throttle right where it was at....passenger side mounts are ALWAYS in good shape they sit there and do very little
b-body-bob
Well-known member
I should probably buy a solid mount for that side.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
That's certainly the easiest solution, and I really ought to have one on the driver's side for Agnes considering the high-RPM launch & shift points. The only downsides are increased vibration in the chassis and you have to buy them in pairs.
Regarding the first, if you've got spacers on that side you could get a chunk of stiff rubber about the right thickness to put betwixt the solid mount and K-member for a wee bit o' damping. A 3M squeegee, part #05518, comes to mind. On issue #2, if'n you only want one I'll split my cost (inc. tax) on a pair of the Moroso 62540s with you and send you the one I can't even use (I have to have the truck mount on the passenger's side). It'd be ~$27 plus UPS flat rate small box shipping.
Regarding the first, if you've got spacers on that side you could get a chunk of stiff rubber about the right thickness to put betwixt the solid mount and K-member for a wee bit o' damping. A 3M squeegee, part #05518, comes to mind. On issue #2, if'n you only want one I'll split my cost (inc. tax) on a pair of the Moroso 62540s with you and send you the one I can't even use (I have to have the truck mount on the passenger's side). It'd be ~$27 plus UPS flat rate small box shipping.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Yes please. Will DM.
How much difference is there in lengths for a v-belt?
I've got a 37.5" power steering belt that's a little too big (remember I had a slightly smaller pulley that I used), and I'm wondering should I start with a 37" part, or go even smaller? The belt looks tight if you just glance at it but the pulley turns freely at full adjustment so it's got to be a lot tighter. I kind of want the adjustment in the middle of course, is an inch enough? I will probably buy more than one length to minimize trips back and forth.
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
Probably not the guy to jump in here after what I just went through with my belt but I will say one inch makes a big difference.
Measured my pulleys at 56, so I figured a 56 would never go on with it all the way down for measurement, so I bought a 58, well that was a mile long, when all they had at the store was a 56 I bought that, now it went on easy & is tight but all the way near the end of adjustment, so I probably need a 55 or 551/2.
with that as my college experience I would say 37 or 36.5
Measured my pulleys at 56, so I figured a 56 would never go on with it all the way down for measurement, so I bought a 58, well that was a mile long, when all they had at the store was a 56 I bought that, now it went on easy & is tight but all the way near the end of adjustment, so I probably need a 55 or 551/2.
with that as my college experience I would say 37 or 36.5
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
On the belt, is the 37.5" measurement around the outside, or is in an "effective measurement" gleaned from part-number data?
Generally speaking, the part number of a belt indicates its effective length, so using Gates nomencalture, a 7370 is an effective length of 37": 7 is the belt width, 370 is the approximate effective length (37.0", or 36.98" if we're splitting hairs). However, that belt's outside measurement is 37.81".
The measurement thing is also true of Dayco belts, although instead of "7" as a width indicator preceeding the length, in this example it'd be "15" (15370).
If I had to make an educated guess, you don't have a 7370 but rather a 7363 with a wee bit of stretch. Off the cuff, I'd say you'd want a 7355 or equivalent (Dayco 15355).
Generally speaking, the part number of a belt indicates its effective length, so using Gates nomencalture, a 7370 is an effective length of 37": 7 is the belt width, 370 is the approximate effective length (37.0", or 36.98" if we're splitting hairs). However, that belt's outside measurement is 37.81".
The measurement thing is also true of Dayco belts, although instead of "7" as a width indicator preceeding the length, in this example it'd be "15" (15370).
If I had to make an educated guess, you don't have a 7370 but rather a 7363 with a wee bit of stretch. Off the cuff, I'd say you'd want a 7355 or equivalent (Dayco 15355).
b-body-bob
Well-known member
The length is based on the part # 15375, so it's the effective length. IIRC that's what rockauto gives me as the number too, but that's a coincidence - this is just the shortest belt I had. I might have a cloth tape and if so I will measure it because it is possibly used and probably from that same old fellow's garage buy out.
Actually I should use that cloth tape and just go ahead and measure around the pulleys.
Last night I cleaned, inspected, greased and installed the torsion bars. The driver side all but jumped in; I swear it was like a vacuum once it started. That's the side with the header against it, but looking yesterday I could see light between them so that's good.
The passenger torsion bar has abundant clearance but still wants to be pounded in. I cleaned it yesterday, greased it, and it it stops about 1/2" short of where it should be. I paid attention when cleaning the sockets and I did not feel anything left in either socket, but I get to do that again tonight so we will see. I don't want to pound it in because that means it'll need pounded out if it's ever removed.
Next I pieced together the tie rod and centerlink, but left all bolts loose. I put the thin washer between the top of the idler arm and the bracket. Wasn't sure if it should be on top or bottom but since top was a lot easier, boom there it is.
Also noticed the passenger biscuit isn't completely flat on the k-frame, will deal with that when I've got the solid for the driver side.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
In that case, I'd just get a 7365/15365 depending on which brand you prefer. It'd only take an inch to get you off the end of the adjustment without finding the short end of the slot.
Try moving the control arm--up, down, anything lateral you might be able to manage--with one hand while pulling forward on the bar. It might go in more easily with the strut rod disconnected.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Everything is loose. IIRC it was like this when it was just the LCA hanging on it.
I need to look at the ends and the sockets closer because it slips most of the way in.
This is the same one I had to drive out so I sure don't want to just drive it back in even a 1/2"
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
We really fought to get Stretch's torsion bars out of his Valiant, but if you've ever seen the rear sockets on an early A-body, you'd see why. They're roughly double the length of the '67-later sockets. You hate to beat on 'em but there's not much else you can do when they won't move.
Have you tried flipping the bar end-for-end to see if that helps? They can be reversed that way, just not swapped side-to-side (left to right).
Have you tried flipping the bar end-for-end to see if that helps? They can be reversed that way, just not swapped side-to-side (left to right).
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Heck I thought of that but forgot to give it a try. I'll throw my dirtys back on and give that a go right now. Back now, no help.
It seems to get stuck in the rear. I noticed before, when it was stuck in, that the front socket would slide back and forth on the bar, so I knew then it was stuck in the back socket.
I pulled it out, cleaned everything up. There was some crud in the corners of the back socket so I took a stone and rubbed that out. I unbolted the front shock and pulled the bump stop so it would fall as far as possible. No help. Photos were taken after that.
It's stopping at the same place every time. Even after I flipped the bar around. It gets tight quick, shove it a little too hard and I'm wondering if I'm going to get it back out or not.
I wouldn't be the first person to have to pop one in with a hammer and drift, would I?
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RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
I had to use that clamp on tool & a lump hammer to get mine out, can't remember if I needed it to go back in, I don't think so?
One side did come out easier than the other.
One side did come out easier than the other.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
What's puzzling to me here is that it slides through the rear socket without issue until it reaches the control arm. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I assume you're sliding the whole bar through the rear socket. That's why I suggested wiggling the arm around whilst pulling on the bar. Flipping it around didn't change anything, so it's not a deformation on the bar itself and since you're installing from the rear (I assume, since I'm not aware of any other way) it really can't be the rear socket.
I think the adjuster key (the part the bolt contacts) is out of alignment, hence the sudden dead stop. Make sure the adjuster bolt is completely loose (i.e., floppin' around, not contacting the key) and futz with the key while pulling forward on the bar.