My 71 Duster work in progress

[Dr.Jass]

I think we discussed it, but when I paint headers I heat them with a propane torch prior to spraying. I hang each header from the forwardmost bolt hole. I get the primaries, then collectors, as hot as I safely think I can (don't want to see any glowing) and then run the torch head up the collector for a minute or two to heat-soak everything again. Sometimes I'll hold it up there while I'm spraying, which I cannot recommend due to the whole "flammable overspray and open flame" situation, but thus far I have not grenaded myself or even had evidence of flash. Remember the commercials for the game "Operation"? "It takes a very steady hand."

I'm really at a loss with your countershaft (Z-bar) issue. It boggles my mind that mine's a stone-stock V8 unit that went right into place with larger headers and a blowproof bellhousing but yours gave you such fits. Hell, I only went by what I thought was the right location for the ball stud based on what I saw, and the whole thing nearly fell together. Between that and the abuse you (apparently necessarily) inflicted on the primaries, I can't understand the hype over Doug's headers at all. They seem like an absolutely lousy fit. The TTi parts were a cake walk.

 

[b-body-bob]

I saw no way to heat them up and keep them hot before painting other than heating and spraying at the same time. Like you said, that could be dangerous and I would never be successful anyway. They're all scarred up now anyway.

The one thing that Doug's has going for them is the above the suspension design. Many times I thought why not just buy some manifolds?

The clutch pedal works fine now.

 

[b-body-bob]

BTW, No, the headers do not line up with the crossmember for the exhaust.

On dinging them, I might have been able to pry things around enough to get the headers off the torsion bars, but I might have also spent a week prying things back and forth and still ended up needing to bang on them. I did try shimming but that didn't work because the passenger side was sort of under the TB, so shims just made that worse. Anyway, I made a command decision and broke out the hammer and torch. This thing has gone on long enough. It's time for it to either break in or blow up.

I'm hoping to be lucky enough that the pipes on it will bolt up. Width doesn't matter because there's no H or X pipe but there's a ton of parts store extensions welded together to mate things up between the header and the exhaust pipe/muffler. Worst case the neighbors are going to enjoy an uncapped break-in, and I'll cut the piece-parts off and start over after that.

I'm trying to figure out what is left to do under the car - I've got to set it on lower stands because I don't seem to be able to hold the column up and reach under the dash to bolt it in. It will be easier at kneeling height, but I don't want to go through multiple cycles of putting the car up-down-up-down before this is over.

 

[b-body-bob]

 

[Dr.Jass]

BTW, No, the headers do not line up with the crossmember for the exhaust.

On dinging them, I might have been able to pry things around enough to get the headers off the torsion bars, but I might have also spent a week prying things back and forth and still ended up needing to bang on them. I did try shimming but that didn't work because the passenger side was sort of under the TB, so shims just made that worse. Anyway, I made a command decision and broke out the hammer and torch. This thing has gone on long enough. It's time for it to either break in or blow up.

I'm hoping to be lucky enough that the pipes on it will bolt up. Width doesn't matter because there's no H or X pipe but there's a ton of parts store extensions welded together to mate things up between the header and the exhaust pipe/muffler. Worst case the neighbors are going to enjoy an uncapped break-in, and I'll cut the piece-parts off and start over after that.

I'm trying to figure out what is left to do under the car - I've got to set it on lower stands because I don't seem to be able to hold the column up and reach under the dash to bolt it in. It will be easier at kneeling height, but I don't want to go through multiple cycles of putting the car up-down-up-down before this is over.

When I did the exhaust on my Valiant, I had a 2½" Summit exhaust system I'd ordered prior to things getting silly. I used the back ¾ of the system, but I noticed yesterday that the header extensions are still lying in the trunk of the car. They're not that long--maybe 18"-20"--but they are the ones that go from the headers to the extension pipes, i.e. through the crossmember. Very nice mandrel-bent stuff, but I didn't need them since I went with a sewer-sized X-pipe and the TTi headers align with the crossmember openings.

If'n you want, I can get pil-chures of 'em this evening. They're yours for the shipping cost if you want 'em.

 

[Dr.Jass]

View attachment 27684

Man, that looks good but it also seems like a looong reach from the driver's seat...

 

[b-body-bob]

If'n you want, I can get pil-chures of 'em this evening. They're yours for the shipping cost if you want 'em.

Yes please. I've got things to trade, we can take it up in DMs.

Man, that looks good but it also seems like a looong reach from the driver's seat...

Yeah it might be. I just put the seat in yesterday, and actually haven't even sat down in the car yet.

I can always order a new stick from Brewer's if necessary.

 

[b-body-bob]

Yeah it might be.

I just looked at Brewer's and uh, yeah it's a little short, compared to


It says this works well in an a-body, but it's 2x the price



You know the first thing I'll do when I'm next in the garage is to get in the car and check it out. I did give the clutch pedal a couple of stabs but I was standing next to the car when the seat was out. You can't really operate it like that, it will be completely different in a seat holding me in place against the PP springs.

 

[Dr.Jass]

I just looked at Brewer's and uh, yeah it's a little short, compared to
View attachment 27685

I might have something similar to that lying around as well. I have enough shifter bits to be ashamed of myself a bit.

Of course, the actual A-body stick is different, but it really only matters if you've got a bench seat:



(Side note, that's the '72-'75 handle. The '69-'71 is identical but is a bayonet or slip-in mount, and '68 is a unicorn bayonet.)

It says this works well in an a-body, but it's 2x the price

View attachment 27686

Lies, filthy lies I tell you. The one that's literally perfect for A-bodies is the '71-up B-body bench seat Pistol Grip:

Of course, the '71 was a bayonet mount but the bolt-in unit is preferable anyhow. I don't know how it would fare against a bench seat, but trust me it's way better than the E-body unit. The A-body and F-body used the same basic shifter parts because they used the same transmissions and the seating arrangement is nearly identical. I have an original at home but have never tried it in the Valiant, primarily because I didn't want a Pistol Grip in that car.

Having owned and tried both shifters when I had my bucket-seat '80 Aspen, I can tell you the B-body unit was far-better suited. The E-body handle was a long reach, particularly in 1st & 3rd. I'm 6'2" and I had to lean forward and to the right to grab it.

You know the first thing I'll do when I'm next in the garage is to get in the car and check it out.

Keep in mind, what's "not that bad" sitting in the garage can become a total nuisance when it's something as repetitious as shifting. You'll have to reach every time, and if you're one of those fellas who's always hanging onto the gear-changer, well, you probably either won't be able to do it, or won't like how you have to sit to do so.

 

[b-body-bob]

Lies, filthy lies I tell you. The one that's literally perfect for A-bodies is the '71-up B-body bench seat Pistol Grip:

I copied the wrong photo, my mistake.
Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists

I'm 6'2" and I had to lean forward and to the right to grab it.

I'm only 5'8 and like to sit up close, or at least I do in manual steering cars, so I might be starting a lot closer to this short stick than you. Definitely something I need to consider.

if you're one of those fellas who's always hanging onto the gear-changer

I am, so I will pick up on it being too short sooner and not later.

 

[Dr.Jass]

As promised.

It turned out there were three in there, all from the Summit kit. If I had to guess, the longest one was actually the piece that entered one of the mufflers. Each pipe is flared to 2½"ID on one end. The shortest one I cut for whatever reason, but the rest of it is likely under the Valiant rather than resting on its hood. At the cut end of that, there's definitely enough margin for welding, but clamping.... maybe. There's not a lot. That pipe also has a bit of a twist to it, where it would've pointed the exhaust up a little for extra clearance after the headers--very similar to what I did with the X-pipe on Agnes.

There's a bit of rust on the longest one, but it's far from serious. They are all aluminized pipe.












I didn't toss 'em because they're mandrel-bent and will come in handy someday. If you think you can use 'em, they're yours. If not, I'll put 'em back with my other spare pieces of pipe.

 

[b-body-bob]

This is what I've got to work with, but if it will bolt up I'm not going to mess with it. It might be a week or so before I finally get the energy and time to try to fit them up. Will let you know about those pipes after that.



I got the steering column stuck in to where I put in the two front bolts nearest the dash, but not before I beat the heck out of the headers with the coupler. Now the dash/floor plate isn't flush to the floor so I've got that yet to figure out. If it's not wedged in I should be able to bolt up that third mounting point to pull the column in the right direction. It wasn't this hard last time - not even close. If I had a helper we could work on both ends at the same time and it would've been done before now. I didn't have a helper the last time either, but I feel like I'm 5 years older this time and it's only been about a year.

 

[b-body-bob]

BTW I think the shifter's going to be OK, although it is hard to say without the column in place whether I was closer to the dash that I will be. The stick ended up at about thigh height, just back from my knee.

 

[Dr.Jass]

When you pulled the column, did you take the whole 3-bolt toe plate, or did you just remove the two bolts on the smaller flange? Experience has taught me that for a happy life one never disturbs the two-bolt flange unless it's absolutely necessary. It's by no means impossible to install if everything's loose, but it's much easier if you don't have to muck about with the smaller flange--just rip the whole toe plate out. The two-bolt flange can't be tight until after you've assembled the toe plate to the firewall, and that's kind of a sloppy fit in the first place. It's just, I dunno, finicky when everything's loose, so I avoid it.

BTW I think the shifter's going to be OK, although it is hard to say without the column in place whether I was closer to the dash that I will be. The stick ended up at about thigh height, just back from my knee.

I dunno... I have a brand-new stick that came with my Dakota's AX-15 Hurst shifter that's really nice. You could reach behind yourself to shift! Let the back-seat drivers have some say! It actually wouldn't be bad for someone my height with buckets, but it won't clear a bench and, on me, it would be about equal with my pants pocket--pretty far back. On the flip side, the short stick on the A-body trans currently infesting my '71 Challenger is a serious reach, even with the front seat stuck all the way forward (I can hardly get in the car). The Dakota handle would be perfect in that situation.

 

[b-body-bob]

I took the whole floor plate column and all out. To get it back in I pushed the floor plate all the way down off the column proper, started bolts through the plate to the firewall, then shoved the column back through the flanged opening.

So I got that done. Now there's this



Yeah it's hard to see but you can guess what it is. That is why you don't put the suspension back in too soon. I guess. The Z-bar and all that gets to come back out though, column too. That's going to take a big dent too, that's the narrow side of it hitting, will be worse on the wide side.

These must be the worst fitting headers ever made. If the A12 wasn't slowly bleeding me dry I'd order a set of TTIs out of spite, or yank it all back out and just put the damned 440 in it. I could just about have that done as quick as I'll get these headers off, banged until they fit, and back on.

 

[b-body-bob]

ETA: it's not shown in that photo but there's a tiny bit of spline still showing at the bottom of the coupler. But when I look into the roll pin hole, I can see that the shaft is where it should be. So I don't think that's the problem. But I wondered.

 

[Dr.Jass]

I don't know if you were paying attention, but at one point rather than buy the TTis I tried to install a set of vintage Doug Thorley headers on the Valiant. Even with 1/2"-thick port adapters to go from a W2 head to an LA header, they required less massaging. Sheesh. Ultimately, it was the passenger's side that put the kibosh on that deal, as the spacer moved the one primary and the collector exactly where the torsion bar needed to be. No amount of hammering was going to fix that.

I'm starting to think you got mis-boxed headers, or at least one. Way back when they existed, $79 Cyclones/Blackjacks fit better than yours, which means the least-expensive Summit brand ones probably do now.

 

[b-body-bob]

BTW I think the shifter's going to be OK, although it is hard to say without the column in place whether I was closer to the dash that I will be. The stick ended up at about thigh height, just back from my knee.

I was so disgusted with the headers that I didn't even get in the car to try the fit now that the column's installed.

FABO thinks the engine isn't placed correctly. I've got no idea how I'm going to move it though, if it does need to move. At this point I'm pretty sure if anything its sitting toward the passenger side, but I guess the tape rule will tell the truth.


I'm going to try shimming the driver's side up to see if that makes a difference. The Schumacher mounts came with biscuits for a truck application and I'm not sure they are exactly the same as the a-body part, or if they're close enough to bolt in place and hold the engine up "good enough".

They look the same as rock auto lists for a 71 v8 car though.

 

[b-body-bob]

"Your problem is engine location as there area number of members on here with the same setup as you with the same headers that had no fitment issues."

So probably I shouldn't have beat on them already, but damn it kind of felt good to get out some frustration at the time.

I think this is fixable. Might need a second set of hands but I've got ideas now.

 

[Dr.Jass]

My Trans-Dapt conversion mounts used a truck mount on the RH side, but a stock A-body part on the left. I found that ironic since the RH has limiter tabs that'll never come into play, where they'd be nice to have on the LH. Regardless, my engine is able to be jockeyed around a bit with the insulators loose (brackets firmly bolted to the block, though). Once the engine was set in the car, we put some tension on the hoist chain and wiggled the engine left-to-right until it seemed settled, for lack of a better term. I don't remember if we had to adjust it one way or the other after that. We did use a thin shim on the driver's side between the bracket and mount, which got us 100% clear of the steering box without dingery. Of course, assembling the engine to the K-member like you did, you can't really adjust it at all since you've no engine bay for reference and the "base" (K-member) is not fixed.

For some reason, I thought yours was a native V8 car. Mine was a six, so the conversion mounts were required but had it been a 273/318 car, I would've absolutely used factory mounting brackets. If I've learned anything in the decades I've been playing with this junk, factory always fits better than even the best aftermarket. I bought a set of Shumacher "conversion" mounts--basically just reproduction 340/360 brackets--for my Challenger, but I've since found and purchased several sets of OE 340 brackets, always at a fraction of what I paid for the Schumacher parts. I've hoarded three or four sets of OE A-body brackets for the same reason. I doubt I'll ever have reason to use the Schumachers.

I can see FABO's contention about engine location, in fact I think I mentioned it myself, but no matter how you slice it those headers don't clear the starter. That's completely unrelated to engine location and, to me, completely inexcusable. They should clear any starter. The Nippondenso mini-starter has been catalogued by MP for 30+ years at this point, so it's not exactly a recent development.