My 71 Duster work in progress

[b-body-bob]

Bastards!

Second time actually. I had the wrong top hose so I bought one of those at AZ last week. Website says in stock, employee says no it's not.

I swear it seems like they must just throw all their parts in a pile for how long it takes them to find anything.

Mind you, a factory '69 Dart 340 air cleaner hits the fargin' hood on my car, and the bracket is well over an inch taller than a stock 340 part.

I've got a honkin' big hole in my hood so that's not a problem for me.

Don't feel too bad. Lokar parts have a well-earned reputation for being garbage.

I just ordered the Amazon parts. Junk is junk, so best to be cheap, and who can say no to a free pair of gloves?
Amazon.com

Spurtar sounds like the company was named after some kind of crazy sex bot.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Second time actually. I had the wrong top hose so I bought one of those at AZ last week. Website says in stock, employee says no it's not.

I swear it seems like they must just throw all their parts in a pile for how long it takes them to find anything.

When the Advance store opened here the corporate rule was when a customer called, you told them "We have it" without fail, expanding further to "in our warehouse" only upon the customer asking to have it set aside for them or saying they were on their way. If the DM happened to be in the store and you didn't say it, you could be written up/suspended/fired. It sounds like AZ has a similar plan for their website, although I'd be seriously pissed if I ordered it based on that, then drove down there to pick it up only to find it wasn't there.

I've got a honkin' big hole in my hood so that's not a problem for me.

That wasn't the point I was making. The point was that my intake is so bloody tall that I had to use an oddball cable arrangement. I doubt that's necessary in your case, since the Air Gap isn't anywhere near as tall as a racing single-plane. I've got probably a baker's dozen LA intakes lying around, and the W2 versions of the Strip Dominator and Victor are skyscrapers by comparison to the rest. I'd guess even the Six Pack intakes are taller.

I just ordered the Amazon parts. Junk is junk, so best to be cheap, and who can say no to a free pair of gloves?
Amazon.com

Spurtar sounds like the company was named after some kind of crazy sex bot.

Jesus, that thing looks like a nightmare. How does one attach it to the accelerator pedal without modifying it? What do you do for a cable bracket? Those are just setup issues. I won't even get into potential failure points. The OE stuff is so much simpler, easier to install, and 150,000-mile reliable.

It probably came out of the same factory as the Lokar stuff but the name is definitely catchier. They need a good marketing department--guys and gals that could coin a slogan, something like "Get a load of Spurtar!" They also need to not feature an engine bay without their product in it. I've got one dollar American that says the car shown is drive-by-wire.

 

[b-body-bob]

Jesus, that thing looks like a nightmare. How does one attach it to the accelerator pedal without modifying it? What do you do for a cable bracket?

It's simple.

Loosen up the allen at the carb end, slide that off, then pull the cable out of the housing go inside the car thread it through the pedal and out the firewall.

Then you toss that pedal end connector in the scrap and just thread the cable through the pedal before it goes into the housing. At some point you figure out how long the housing needs to be and cut it to length. At the carb end, take the nuts off and just clamp the threaded part that's left in the factory bracket.

It ain't nothing but a bicycle cable with fancy hardware on it. I've used them on several cars starting back in the days before China fully mechanized and started reproducing everything and it wasn't so simple to just buy a replacement.

It did seem like the pedal doesn't have enough throw to open the carb fully, which is why I was messing with the stuck adjuster that I broke.

 

[b-body-bob]

Jesus, that thing looks like a nightmare

the other end of the cable has a ball on it, passes through the pedal and firewall



FWIW the factory forward spring bracket won't work but I used a long bolt and I think I'm going to just stick with that.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Obviously the pedal should have plenty of throw. You might want to put a block under it and tape/glue the cable end to the pedal whilst screwing around at the carb end so you know the pedal's "at idle" so to speak. I think I'd move the cable housing forward in the bracket, until the nut is against it. If you've got to, you can always pull it back toward the firewall.

If it's something that's given you good results in the past, by all means run it. It just seems to me that by the time you're to the point of cutting the housing, the stock parts would already be installed and ready to run. Looking at the intake in the photo you just posted, a stock 4V throttle cable should work nicely. That intake's not much taller than a factory 340/360 spread-bore intake. The 2V throttle bracket probably would not work, nor that cruise-cable adapter currently holding the *spurt*-AARGH! cable (yes, the name also sounds like a pirate climax).

 

[b-body-bob]

The 2V throttle bracket

Yes that is the 2 bbl one that came on the engine, it's the only thing I've got. I'd be over $100 by the time I bought a resto bracket and cable so I'm trying to make this work. If that nut hadn't gotten corroded or whatever stuck it together it would be done already.

I used a jack stand on the pedal to hold er down and so I know it wasn't getting full throttle last night. I will try holding er up like you suggest to be sure I'm not losing travel at the start.

 

[b-body-bob]

Got the hose installed, didn't fill the rad just in case I have to take something back apart.

Tip on the cut to fit lower hose - just go ahead and cut the top short bend off. It's the part at the far right



Don't get carried away and cut it too low, just cut it off square a little below that bend so it's only got one bend at the left to go toward the radiator.

Waiting on the throttle cable parts so I started sorting out the wiring; everything is way too long because it moved from the front of the engine to the back. I need to cut out a quick block-off plate for the two A/C holes in the firewall and make sure all the holes are closed off one way or the other. I'm out of satin black paint, so didn't do it yet.

 

[b-body-bob]

I can't get full throttle. Back to this:

Note where the ball is to the right of the forward spacing spring, below the large hole.

I think I need to move it to where the forward facing spring is. Maybe? I'll have to cut another cable if so, no big deal but I'm still doing a little figuring before going through that. I've also got an A/T adapter if I have to put that back on the linkage.

 

[b-body-bob]

Ok I think that got it.


I don't like it. It's hard to tell in the photo but the cable and the springs are all running in different angles. Nothing is aligned with anything else. It might get replaced for aesthetics if nothing else.

 

[Dr.Jass]

I don't like it.

That makes two of us.

I'm not sure where you had the cable connected in the first photo, but in the second it's clearly in the wrong spot. The large hole at the top of the throttle lever is the intended connection point, at least on GM cars. On Chryslers, the 20-7 adapter is needed to connect and align the factory parts with the aftermarket carb (also true of Elder Brocks).

The cable misalignment is because you're using universal one-size-fits-none parts with 2V cable bracket, and attempting to correct that misalignment with a cruise bracket. Left the way it is the cable will abrade on the edge of the ferrule. It'll either groove the ferrule, wear through the cable, or both.

The hole where those rear-travelling springs are connected to the throttle bracket is the anchor point for the throttle-pressure (kickdown) linkage return spring, not the throttle return spring (which always went forward). It's not supposed to align with anything but the end of the factory throttle stud. The forward-running spring is misaligned because its factory connection point is also the throttle stud. Neither spring was connected to the throttle lever.

We dealt with this kind of nonsense on EFI Ed's Charger, way back when he was just Ed and running a 950HP and skyscraper M1 single-plane on his 492. He had a CSI (now CSR) throttle bracket and some kind of universal throttle cable. We finally ended up butchering that stupid bracket and using a Slant Six cable and factory throttle clamp.

Just a friendly reminder: The more/heavier throttle return springs used, the faster the throttle body's primary shaft bore will wear.

 

[b-body-bob]

It's OK for now.

One thing I don't like about a factory cable is the need to use the adapter. I don't need that, and the gadget that bolts to that for connecting the cable includes a honkin big stud for the throttle pressure linkage. I sure don't need that. I will have to shop around to find something different and more appropriate for a 4-speed install.

FWIW I've got the carb adapter parts and had that installed last night before going back to a direct connection because the adapter made the cable angle even worse due to the 2-bbl bracket.

I'm putting 'lectrical stuff on tonight.

 

[Dr.Jass]

One thing I don't like about a factory cable is the need to use the adapter.

It's not the cable, it's the throttle bracket that creates that situation. That's not Chrysler's fault, it's Holley's for designing 99.5% of their carburetors with Chevrolet throttle arms.

Or, if you prefer, your fault for running an aftermarket carb.

...and the gadget that bolts to that for connecting the cable includes a honkin big stud for the throttle pressure linkage. I sure don't need that.

And yet, that's the throttle stud that virtually every non-Hemi '71-up V8 used regardless of transmission. If that little bit of extra length bothers you that much, you could either look up a repro for a '67-'69 340/383 4-speed ($18 on eBay) or just trim off what you feel is excess.

FWIW I've got the carb adapter parts and had that installed last night before going back to a direct connection because the adapter made the cable angle even worse due to the 2-bbl bracket.

Yeah, it was apparent just looking at it that the 20-7 would exacerbate the alignment issue rather than help it.

 

[b-body-bob]

I found those short studs on Mancini racing too.

I also found they list cable lengths so I can figure out if the ones I've got (all the same, b-body I guess) will work or not. Then I'll buy one of those AR engineering brackets and call it a day.

I found one post from someone with an RPM airgap saying this is the cable:
More Information for ATP Y156

Crossing that interchange number to Mancini says that it's 21-1/4" (IIRC) long.

 

[Dr.Jass]

I found one post from someone with an RPM airgap saying this is the cable:
More Information for ATP Y156

Crossing that interchange number to Mancini says that it's 21-1/4" (IIRC) long.

That's the "standard" V8 cable, which my information says is 19.5" long. Pioneer #CA8417 is the same part. I can't explain the variances in measured length, but I would expect it's the same cable. RockAuto only lists it for 1975 models curiously enough, but it's not surprising since information on older applications is sketchy these days. The interchange number they give (2899336) is the part # for a 1969-'70 340 and 1969-'75 318-2V, whereas the 1971-'74 340/360-4V list part #3577523. The '71-up part is longer, but sources vary as to how much. I expect that's due to the height difference between the '70 square-bore and '71 spread-bore intakes, plus the '71 340's carb spacer.

ATP Y155 (Pioneer CA8418) is the six-banger cable, which is listed as 24.25" long. This is the cable being sold as the "extra long" V8 cable on eBay--with a dandy markup.

The original cable bracket number was 3462741 and is a common reproduction piece. That would, of course, necessitate the Holley 20-7 adapter.

I went back through my e-mails to see which cable I ordered for Agnes, and it's listed as "69 70 71 A-body 340" (which makes zero sense) from Van's Auto via eBay. Van's lists it as 20.125" in length and shows 3577523 as a cross-reference number, so I did not use the "extra long" Slant Six cable. The price hasn't changed in the five years since I bought it, which is nice. That being said, even with my towering throttle cable bracket and high carb pad, I think the ATP/Pioneer parts might work on Agnes. For my rubles, though, the Pioneer looks to be the better part. The ATP has a plastic firewall ferrule and cable sleeve at the carb swivel, while the Pioneer is plated steel in those areas--at least in the pilchers.

Just keep in mind that too long a cable isn't better than too short. If it's too long, it'll need a sharp bend at the firewall, which can/will kink the housing over time and abrade the cable. Voice of experience: strands of the cable eventually wear through at the kink, and and the cable frays inside the housing. In my case, that created a very-exciting stuck-throttle experience in the Black Bitch with the throttle WFO.

 

[b-body-bob]

The cables I've hoarded are all 23-1/2" IIRC from last night. I took one look at that and quit looking - it's too long.

This I learned last night - I probably should have invested in a new engine wiring harness instead of patching this one up. Might do that along with the throttle cable after the motor is proven.

Also I was half smart on my wiring adaptations - I stuck a terminal block under the dash for the tach, gauges, stereo. All good and well. Where I dropped the ball was failing to write down which wire goes where. I've got an orphan wire under the hood that I think goes to the coil for the tach or maybe not. It's the only place it could go but I didn't tag the loose end either. Laying in the floor trying to figure out which wire goes where puts me in that focal distance where my glasses don't help and looking without them is even worse.

 

[Dr.Jass]

This I learned last night - I probably should have invested in a new engine wiring harness instead of patching this one up. Might do that along with the throttle cable after the motor is proven.

This is stuff I did pre-startup simply because I didn't want to have issues at the outset. Engine harnesses live a tough life so I just went new out of the gate. In my two stints as a car electronics installer, the same is true for dash harnesses, except they're usually trashed by someone previously attempting what I was there to do... the ol' twist-n-tape, Scotch-Loks, whatever butchery comes to mind.

That being said, barring new wiring (dash harnesses in particular ain't cheap) it's well worth taking the time after the wiring is all buttoned to verify everything electrical works as it should before you attempt to start it. Does coil (+) show ~8V with the key in run? Does it jump up to battery voltage twisting the key to start? If you don't want the engine to turn, you can take the trigger wire off the starter relay to test those or you can test resistance instead of voltage.

While I replaced Agnes' engine/forward lamp harness right off the hop just due to age, I got lucky on the dash harness. The only cut wire was for the cigarette lighter. While I had the engine harness unplugged, I took the time to thoroughly clean all the terminals for the dash harness at the bulkhead disconnect.

And, since your car is an A-body, I'll recommend you thoroughly clean the ground for the forward lamp harness, and the grounds at the turn signal housings, which are kind of corrosion-prone on the '69 Valiant turn signals.

Also I was half smart on my wiring adaptations - I stuck a terminal block under the dash for the tach, gauges, stereo. All good and well. Where I dropped the ball was failing to write down which wire goes where. I've got an orphan wire under the hood that I think goes to the coil for the tach or maybe not. It's the only place it could go but I didn't tag the loose end either. Laying in the floor trying to figure out which wire goes where puts me in that focal distance where my glasses don't help and looking without them is even worse.

I'm living a similar nightmare. After all the work I put into fabricating, assembling and installing the 4-driver dash speaker for the Valiant, I was very thankful I'd attached all the wiring before I'd installed it. Then I realized I've got eight unlabeled wires hanging under the dash--four positives and four negatives. As to which ones go to the midranges and which go to the tweeters, never mind the side, I've no clue.

I've ignored that problem for quite some time simply because the car's got much larger fish to fry at the moment.

 

[b-body-bob]

That being said, barring new wiring (dash harnesses in particular ain't cheap) it's well worth taking the time after the wiring is all buttoned to verify everything electrical works as it should before you attempt to start it. Does coil (+) show ~8V with the key in run? Does it jump up to battery voltage twisting the key to start? If you don't want the engine to turn, you can take the trigger wire off the starter relay to test those or you can test resistance instead of voltage.

Yes, I need to do all that. It's my OCD talking but I keep thinking I should check that I'm not 180* out ONE MORE TIME.

Patching up the wiring was sort of comforting, I enjoy doing it. But now I've got an untaped harness in the car because I couldn't tape it before installing it because I didn't know where to stop the wrap. It also bugs me that some wires needed extensions and I wasn't able to match all the colors. It's like the throttle bracket, it will work but it doesn't please me.

I think once I put plugs in it and wire those it's down to filling the radiator and hooking a gas can to the fuel pump and it's ready to go. It's kind of a worry with fuel and fluid hoses, and concern about leaks. If it leaks a little coolant (water) I can just shove it out the door but if there's a fuel leak, time to turn it off with possible disaster to follow.

I also blew air through the air bleeds and all that on the carb, and shook it around until I was sure the floats aren't stuck. It was working when I removed and drained it. There's a brand new module and vac pod in the distributor. Have to trust they're good out of the box. The ECU was working when it was removed. I welded the exhaust while it was bolted to the car, probably welded the z-bar pivot support too. I've got a bunch of ECUs, some orange ones that look new. Is there anyway to test that without turning the engine?

 

[Dr.Jass]

Yes, I need to do all that. It's my OCD talking but I keep thinking I should check that I'm not 180* out ONE MORE TIME.

A paint marker is your friend: "OK, I did that." A paint daub on something you've finished is a great second-guess killer:

 

[b-body-bob]

A paint marker is your friend: "OK, I did that." A paint daub on something you've finished is a great second-guess killer:

I remember before I put the intake on that I turned it one rotation and I noticed #6 intake closing, which would mean I had started on #1 compression so I know it's right but that doesn't help my OCD one bit. I was going to go for two turns but decided not to because I noticed that. So I should go out and find the rotor pointing at the firewall.

If I would've paint-daubed things as I put them together I'd have about 5 different colors on things from when I put them back together after having to take them apart again over and over LOL.

 

[b-body-bob]

I poured a gallon of distilled water in it tonight. Unsure if the half-and-half water/antifreeze will cool better than just straight water, or vice-versa. Opinions welcome.

Popped the plugs in it, put the wires on it, wired up the reverse light, and put the driver seat back in it.

I don't remember how much the wires cost but they came from RockAuto and IIRC they were cheap (definitely cheaper than hot rod wires). They're 7mm but how much does that really matter? Maybe small blocks are different than big blocks, but there was no messing around because of too long wires like you have with a B/RB engine.