A12 - time to get busy

The parts car is 3 on the tree.

The Duster has a shift kit in it that will hold in gear when it's not in D until you shift it and it was brutal when driven that way, although while I had it all apart I found the throttle lever was misadjusted so it might be all better now. Of course a RMVB doesn't use a throttle lever ...

I've got a full automatic valve body here too, but there's a chance I would have to un-modify things in the trans to switch to that. Seems like I remember the governor is gone and the accumulator is blocked.

The A12 trans has a PTC converter that I was told behind a 450 hp motor in a roadrunner: "The converter you have should footbrake up to 2 -2500 and flash 35-4000 behind your setup."

I've also got what I believe is a /6 converter that was installed when I bought it. It could be a J converter but I'd have to dig it out to know and right now I don't care that much.

Also I keep trying to setup a wish list at Dante's so I can make a big interior parts purchase and it's broken his website twice. The first time it happened his "IT team" made a code change and re-did my account, which worked until it didn't again. There's nearly a year wait on seat covers.
 
My old roomate's 4-4-2 had a 3,800 stall behind a healthy Joe Mondello 455 and a 3.91 rear gear. It ran 11.90s in full street trim with his 395-pound arse in it. That car was gnarly, but the transmission didn't shift hard until you were WFO. I'd always assumed the stall smoothed it out. You could hear it shift but not necessarily feel it. That being said, it was still a fully-functioning automatic (it was his daily when we met).

When I de-manual-ized my 727 the only modification I had to make was removing a plug (that I'd installed) in the forward part of the pan rail close to the bellhousing. It was like a tiny core (freeze) plug. Although that was a forward pattern, I don't expect there'd be much more than that in your transmission--I mean, you can't easily reprogram a transmission case. Almost all the magic happens inside the valve body. I'd stuck with the forward pattern because reversing it was counterintuitive to me, plus I had a factory Slap Stik in that car. Dave at Pro Trans told me the pattern reversal actually quickens shifts on the Mopar transmission; it had nothing to do with accidentally hitting neutral or reverse gear. Sanctioning bodies required a reverse lockout on the shifter regardless of pattern direction.

The good news for you is that unlike the throttle-pressure linkage, column-shift linkage is the same from Slant Six through to Hemi, so it shouldn't be tough to find (or fund). It just needs to come from a '66-'69 B-body (things might've gotten weird in '70 due to the ignition switch moving--I didn't check). The 904 and 727 use the same valve body in the same physical location. The '69 parts book shows the linkage rods being dependent only on body style, not transmission, so you should have little sourcing parts for that option. Hell, those are the kind of parts guys throw out (self included, though I've never had a pre-'70 column-shift B-body).
 
It definitely gives me plenty to think about. Seems like I'll end up tearing it down to figure out what has changed.
 
This all happened in 2007

This is what you see with the front half out and the valve body off
hillbilly_trans_stand2.jpg

Rear drum/strut
IMG_3427.jpg

This should be an upgraded lever (5.0?)

IMG_4107.jpg

This is the unknown converter that came in the car. It may eventually end up in the Duster.

unknown_converter.jpg

I should have photos of the various parts/assemblies so I will keep looking.
 
The kickdown lever should have the ratio stamped into it somewhere. If it is a 5:1, I'd replace that spot-welded band with a cast or billet single-piece unit before reassembly. The 5:1 lever is known to occasionally rip the ends off multi-piece bands at WOT... just a heads-up.
 
I remember it being marked somewhere. It might be possible to monkey around with the contrast and see it in the photo if it's on that side.

I don't think WOT and kickdown have anything to do with it right now since there's no throttle linkage. Will look into it if I change it to full automatic. Which I've about talked myself into.
 
It's commonly called the "kickdown lever" but it's a band-apply lever. Line pressure directly affects how hard it hits. Since you have 100% of the available line pressure 100% the time with your valve body, it's going to hit that band as hard as is possible on every single band application. Throttle-pressure linkage would mitigate that some, but as-is you couldn't be more ripe for a band failure.

WOT comes into play for a couple of reasons. The only thing regulating your line pressure at the moment is the front pump. Higher RPM means more line pressure which is a harder hit on the band. Add to that the level of kinetic energy is in the transmission's whirling bits. Action/reaction. Shit breaks.
 
LOL whirling bits
reminds me of the month i spent home made shift kitting the original 904 in my 67...tossing the spring tweaking pressures, at one point i had it hitting so hard i thought it was going to break something..and that was on the 355;s....i eventualy got it dialed into the high end of "whoa that thing cant be stock" and out of the "oh fuck did i break it"..and found a happy place...

in all of that i learned a TON about how the band apply off the trottle actualy works and how adjustments effect it...which just added another piece to the puzzle..thus why it took me a month of day after day making tweaks, droppin the pan etc etc etc repeat..i was litteraly droppin the pan 2-3 times a day
its NOT mild mannered..and it rips as hard as any shift kit ive experianced(except for the RFMV) in my 69....

add in docs 5:33's and its a mule kicking you in he head on every shift...at idle.....
 
Dr.Jass said:
It's commonly called the "kickdown lever" but it's a band-apply lever. Line pressure directly affects how hard it hits. Since you have 100% of the available line pressure 100% the time with your valve body, it's going to hit that band as hard as is possible on every single band application. Throttle-pressure linkage would mitigate that some, but as-is you couldn't be more ripe for a band failure.

WOT comes into play for a couple of reasons. The only thing regulating your line pressure at the moment is the front pump. Higher RPM means more line pressure which is a harder hit on the band. Add to that the level of kinetic energy is in the transmission's whirling bits. Action/reaction. Shit breaks.
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Seems like a plausible scenario if you got into a runaway pressure situation. Once it's been hammered on and held up, pressure is likely to go lower and not higher.

But I will definitely investigate that lever. Something in the back of my mind keeps telling me I expected a 5 lever but that wasn't what it was.
 
Dr.Jass said:
The good news for you is that unlike the throttle-pressure linkage, column-shift linkage is the same from Slant Six through to Hemi, so it shouldn't be tough to find (or fund).
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I've got the piece on the transmission, the rest of it is needed.
There's a setup on e-bay, very very clean, $250 complete.
There's a setup on moparts, claiming very clean, no photos, $200 complete.
There's a couple of places around here where I might be able to get what I need, hopefully for less $$

I eyeballed my parts trans today, it's got both levers on the transmission, a valve body, and is otherwise complete. For some reason I had to salvage the tailshaft housing from it, maybe because I drilled a vent hole in the wrong place. It should have a governor in it, although it's pretty likely to be for low RPM and won't be optimal in this application.

Other things I need are for the wipers - a 3-speed wiper motor (or one that I've got restored), a switch, the drive rod, and the connecting pin between the motor and the drive rod.
 
The kickdown linkage should be a 3 piece with 2 bell cranks but that's the extent of my knowledge from messing about with the Duster. I'm unsure if the 6-pack cars have different parts, but confident they do, just because.
 
b-body-bob said:
The kickdown linkage should be a 3 piece with 2 bell cranks but that's the extent of my knowledge from messing about with the Duster. I'm unsure if the 6-pack cars have different parts, but confident they do, just because.
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The upper "bellcrank" should simply be a pivot on the throttle bracket, with an actual bellcrank down at the transmission. 383 and 440 are similar, but here I was thinking you've got A12 induction and was trying to decipher Six Barrel parts, which are curiously absent from the 1969 catalog. I don't think you're going back to a Six Pack, though, correct?

If you're not terribly concerned about correct appearance with your fancy valve covers and data-tag delete option, you might consider using the '73-up single-rod linkage arrangement. It's one piece from the throttle-cable bracket to the transmission lever--no bellcrank. It's simpler to configure and there are far less parts to find and/or fail. It's also "universal": the catalog description reads "All w/440 engine" on the main linkage rod. That brings the C-barge world into your parts sources as well (probably trucks, too). After June of '73 they show same throttle-stud slider for 400 and 440, so I'd expect if you found a '74-up setup it would work perfectly (and I'd be surprised to find the earlier parts don't interchange). The only real caveat here is that the slider must be from a 4-barrel engine (even 340/360 will work. The main linkage rod should be from a 440, but...

...when I bought the Black Bitch from Kev, it had a '77 400HP in it (the engine out of my old Cordoba, a car which I also bought from Kev 🤨). Anyhow, I damaged the 400 and replaced it with a 440 equipped with an OE 4V intake and TQ. I did nothing to the throttle-pressure linkage except install and adjust it. About six months later the engine got an Edelbrock TM7 intake and Holley 4010 carb. I installed the Holley throttle-lever extension (#20-7) to align the throttle stud with the cable bracket/throttle-pressure linkage (unless it's a factory-installed Holley, the 20-7 is mandatory for proper cable/"kickdown" operation). The linkage still worked perfectly. A few months after that, the TM7/4010 setup was replaced with Six Pack induction with the DC Super Stock (mechanical secondary) carburetors. I had to change the throttle-cable bracket (and transfer the cruise-control cable clamp 😁) and get a Six Pack throttle cable. The 20-7 was removed. Once again, the 400-4V kickdown linkage worked well after a bit of adjustment. Was the angle perfect relative to the engine/firewall? Probably not, but it didn't hit anything and I never had any throttle-pressure-related woes. I simply adjusted it so that at WFO, the trans lever was at the extent of its travel. That particular transmission is sitting behind a mildly-worked Hemi now, untouched since 1998.

You could also use a cable from Bouchillan. Expensive and hokey-lookin', but I'm told they work well. Maybe the latter is all that matters to you.

For my money and effort, I'd be looking for the '73-up single-rod setup, preferably from a 440 and all from the same car/truck, from throttle slider to transmission arm. If you plan to eventually return to the Six-Barrel arrangement, it will still work. If you go with the '72-older bellcrank style, the rod between the throttle bracket and lower bellcrank is specific to that induction system (it's longer)... although, depending on your current intake and throttle-cable bracket, that part might actually work better for what you've got.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go outside and hug my various clutch pedals. 😆
 
Thanks for the info on the later model linkage. I want to use factory style non-cable linkage but it doesn't need to be "right".

The car will definitely be a 6-pack. Many moons ago I snagged (not-original) parts for that. I've also got a Ben Snobar repop air cleaner and an original hood.


Yeah those valve covers are fancy, aren't they? I've got some repop originals w/o wiring tabs hanging on the wall that may go on.

FWIW I need to get an HD engine stand and flip the engine over to check the bearings. It's be just my luck to put it back in a freshly painted car and have it puke so I need to R&R it again. It has to be HD because I won't take the heads off unless totally necessary. I've had dressed engines on Harbor Freight style stands, and it gets a little actually a lot shaky.
 
b-body-bob said:
The car will definitely be a 6-pack. Many moons ago I snagged (not-original) parts for that. I've also got a Ben Snobar repop air cleaner and an original hood.
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This makes me smile.

b-body-bob said:
Thanks for the info on the later model linkage. I want to use factory style non-cable linkage but it doesn't need to be "right".
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If it works, it really can't be wrong in my estimation.

b-body-bob said:
Yeah those valve covers are fancy, aren't they? I've got some repop originals w/o wiring tabs hanging on the wall that may go on.
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Per Kev, who works at AMD, the repops aren't very good. If memory serves, they're even harder to seal and keep sealed than originals. On his '68, he sought out OE covers since he's using HP manifolds. He was delighted to learn I had a nice set I'd picked up at Jefferson a couple of years back for $15. I just gave 'em to him... odds are I'll never own a '68 big-block anything. I just bought them because they were cheap and I'm a hoarder.

b-body-bob said:
FWIW I need to get an HD engine stand and flip the engine over to check the bearings. It's be just my luck to put it back in a freshly painted car and have it puke so I need to R&R it again. It has to be HD because I won't take the heads off unless totally necessary. I've had dressed engines on Harbor Freight style stands, and it gets a little actually a lot shaky.
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I have four engine stands, including the first one I bought way back before I was old enough to vote. That's the stand on which I built the 440 that went into the Black Bitch, and yes--it was wobbly. Frighteningly so, in fact. It's a three-legged stand of unremembered origin. I'm pretty sure an all-iron 440 was near its capacity and had I installed exhaust manifolds it would've broken. This one uses a pinch bolt to lock the spindle, which I like. I also like that the swivel casters are at the rear. It's much easier to steer/jockey than front-mount swivels.
The next engine stand came from Advance Auto Parts. It's a four-legger and very stable; said stability mostly comes from the fact that an assembled 360's carb pad is about at wiener level (I'm 6'2", 35" inseam). I call it the Midget Stand and use it essentially for storage, although I suppose if I wanted to work while seated it'd be nice. 😖 I don't even remember where the swivel casters are; it's literally a glorified storage cradle to me.
The last engine stand I bought, and the best of those for which I paid, is a Performance Tool W41025 (the label is still on it). It's a four-leg, 1000lb-capacity unit that's considerably taller than the Advance Lollipop Guild stand yet just as stable. It holds up an all-iron 440 with exhaust manifolds, carb-to-pan, with no drama--I had a complete motorhome engine on it accessories and all (the block is still mounted). It uses a drop-in locking pin, same as the Munchkin stand, which works but I prefer the pinch bolt's infinite locking adjustment. Swivel casters are at the front, which makes it hard to steer with 800lb of iron on it. I spend a lot of time lifting on the rotator bar to slide the rear around. Still, far and away it's the best of the three.

This photo shows the W41025 with bare 440 block on the left, a custom wheeled storage cradle with assembled 340 in center (covered by blankets), and the Advance Auto Parts' Peter Dinklage Signature Series with assembled 360 on right. The top of the Hilborn stacks are equivalent height to my navel. It's really that short.

100_4581.JPG


My best engine stand is a homegrown unit of epic proportions. It's the envy of everyone who's seen it. I'd estimate its capacity is close to a ton. The (machined) spindle rides in a 4"-long, 1.25"-diameter oilite bushing. The spindle is about .050" shorter than the bushing, so locking is via a clamp bolt mounted axially in the spindle. It clamps a large "washer" (about 3" diameter and .75" thick) against the spindle tube so adjustment is infinite. There is no play between the spindle and bushing; I can roll an assembled iron-head 340 with two fingers. It's a brilliant design.
I didn't build it. The lackey sent by the seller of my roller-cam 340 shortblock just gave it to me when we mentioned taking said 340 off the stand to load it. "He got the engine sitting on that stand. We've got a lot of engine stands around here. Just take it." None of the stands I saw were anywhere near as colossal; I'd have paid as much for this stand as I did the whole engine.
I highly recommend this design if you've got a lot of time, a couple hundred bucks' worth of steel, a lathe, boring bar, welder, and huge bushing just lying around.
 
The only engine stand I've got is a 3-leg front caster drop in pin model I bought at Sam's club probably 30 years ago.

What I really need is about 4' more depth on the garage so I have room for an engine stand.
 
my FAV stand is a "U leg" stand ive even had the complete 354 hemi with iron manifolds on it..its one of those old yellow "performance" branded units i got a few decades ago..its the most stable of any stand ive owner borrowed or used...the only complaint i have is the rotation action of which i solved by greasing the sleeve
on the kickdown..."if" you end up with a 2brl end you can fix it, the trick is getting the correct "fine thread" rod(which will have to come from a maker/supplyer directly i have one neer by if you cant source it)...and if memory serves..theres some 90/00 rangerovers that uses the same thread pitch and have a "coupler" so you can mate the rod to the "too short" 2brl unit..of course...you can just buy a damn coupler to do it too...also found said rangerover had a ball and socket piece too which makes for GREAT carb linkage fabrication for multip carbs with a very smooth action
 
The later single rod kick down set-up won't work on your Bee....the firewall shape is wrong and it will hit.

But I do know the kick down linkage from a 413 will work...I have that on my 68 T/C wagon now.

Ben Snobar...man I haven't heard that name in a lot of years! I used to drive down to Olypmia WA to get parts from Ben when I was restoring the Coronet....is he still around?
 
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