b-body-bob
Well-known member
Good info, thanks. A&A transmission has complete repop linkage sets, but they're not cheap $350.
A12 - time to get busy
- Thread starter b-body-bob
- Start date
thrashingcows
Drowning deep in my sea of loathing...so I'm
I know when I was looking for the 3 piece set-up for the wagon I had a hard time finding one for a decent price...even the 413 set-up I got was way more then I felt it should be worth, but was still cheaper than the correct OEM or repro stuff....and that was 12 years ago now.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Thinking out loud again - I looked through the Munro book covering the installation of a TransGo shift kit and I realized I don't even know if the valve body out of my parts transmission is stock or already modified.
thrashingcows
Drowning deep in my sea of loathing...so I'm
I do not know for sure but is the valve body from a 727 the same regardless of small block vs big block? Can you pick up another VB from a known unmodified transmission?
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
The valve body is identical between all 727s and 904s within the same years, as long as we stay within the boundaries of lockup/non-lockup transmissions... so yeah, you could use the valve body out of a '78 Slant Six 904 (non-lockup) if one's available.
I recall the 1972-'75 valve bodies being the ones to get but I'm not sure anymore. It probably goes later than that assuming the donor is non-lockup. The years listed would be safe bets. Valve bodies older than 1969 may not have the part-throttle kickdown assembly, which you absolutely want. Without it, you must completely floor the accelerator to pass. If memory serves, all auto Slant Sixes got PTKD starting in '66 but it took awhile to hit the V8 transmissions. The 727 out of my '67 GTX did not have it, and the guy who bought it was not a fan of its operation. The accelerator had to be figuratively in the water pump for that transmission to downshift whilst passing. Beyond that, I seem to remember reading there were some minor upgrades in '72 that made it a better performance unit.
"Now Jass," you say smart-assedly, "you just said all the valve bodies are identical within the same years!" I did, because the PTKD assembly from a '66 Slant will bolt right in place of the cover plate in the same spot on a '66 Hemi 727 and function exactly as intended--because the valve body itself is identical. The PTKD valve assembly bolts to the side of it.
I recall the 1972-'75 valve bodies being the ones to get but I'm not sure anymore. It probably goes later than that assuming the donor is non-lockup. The years listed would be safe bets. Valve bodies older than 1969 may not have the part-throttle kickdown assembly, which you absolutely want. Without it, you must completely floor the accelerator to pass. If memory serves, all auto Slant Sixes got PTKD starting in '66 but it took awhile to hit the V8 transmissions. The 727 out of my '67 GTX did not have it, and the guy who bought it was not a fan of its operation. The accelerator had to be figuratively in the water pump for that transmission to downshift whilst passing. Beyond that, I seem to remember reading there were some minor upgrades in '72 that made it a better performance unit.
"Now Jass," you say smart-assedly, "you just said all the valve bodies are identical within the same years!" I did, because the PTKD assembly from a '66 Slant will bolt right in place of the cover plate in the same spot on a '66 Hemi 727 and function exactly as intended--because the valve body itself is identical. The PTKD valve assembly bolts to the side of it.
thrashingcows
Drowning deep in my sea of loathing...so I'm
Thanks Doc...I assumed 727 and 904 were different...good to know the the PTKD is the same. Once I start driving the coronet again I'll be able to see if I had PTKD in it or not...can't recall now. But I have a couple spare valve bodies in my parts trucks so if it doesn't I now know I can steal the PTKD from one of those. 
b-body-bob
Well-known member
At this point, how do you know if ANY of them have been modified?
I think the answer is to take it apart and compare it to the FSM diagrams to look for changes.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
If you unbolt it and the accumulator spring is present, it's unmodified. That's the first thing to go in any upgrade. Finding an unmodified valve body should not prove difficult.
The entire valve body is the same between them within years and lockup presence (in case I wasn't clear on that).Thanks Doc...I assumed 727 and 904 were different...good to know the the PTKD is the same. Once I start driving the coronet again I'll be able to see if I had PTKD in it or not...can't recall now. But I have a couple spare valve bodies in my parts trucks so if it doesn't I now know I can steal the PTKD from one of those.
The following diagram illustrates the location, although prior to 1971 the flat steel plate isn't present on PTKD transmissions (it's simply a closed casting, not flat on the end). A&A used to sell a kit, as did DC/MP. Both dispensed with the flat steel cover plate. Yes, you have to drop the valve body but it's a very-easy mod. Once again, in case I wasn't clear, the PTKD can be installed on any '66-up 727/904. The necessary passages in the valve body are the same and the mounting provisions are there.
This is what the '66-'71 PTKD valve body looks like, with the A&A part being a similarly-shaped billet version:
'71 and later, it looks like this:
Either style does the same thing. I'm not sure why it got more complex during 1971. I'm also not sure if it's a model-year difference or calendar-year rolling change.
The trans can't be numbers-matching. That didn't start until 1968, and then only on high-performance engines/models (i.e. a '68 Charger 383-4V should not be stamped). Stamping all engines/transmissions began in 1969. Yours has either been swapped or someone was inside it in the 20+ years prior to your ownership. Only Slant Sixes got PTKD in 1967, and the assembly processes/workflow at the transmission plant would've precluded a "factory error" situation from occurring. That kind of thing only happened on the assembly line.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
It has an accumulator spring.
It might even be numbers matching original to the car I took it out of. I paid about 6k for that, a fresh 440, an airgrabber setup including the dash frame, and a newly rebuilt front end. The previous owner had the interior done, it turned out to be crap, and it needed a ton of body work. I traded it for a rolling Duster with mini-tubs that I turned around and sold.
Another trans question - the car creeps in neutral, and always has. I replaced all the soft parts incl clutches steels and bands and checked the clearances, but when it was all said and done, it still creeped. The shifter cable was adjusted correctly so it's something inside the case.
I read that this is caused by a too tight clutch pack. I'm pretty sure all the clearances were out of spec loose, not tight, but I need to at least check it before putting the trans back in. I also understand it might be the valve body, but I don't want to pull the trans after I've put it back in. Once and done.
The Munro book and I presume the FSM gives clutch clearance with a dry pack. These have now been soaked and run in. Are the clearances for a dry pack close enough for a wet pack?
And yes, the shifter cable was adjusted correctly, and yes, I still have that same wheelbarrow or at least the tray, everything from the handles down was replaced with better ones from a busted out plastic tray wheelbarrow that a contractor left here.
It might even be numbers matching original to the car I took it out of. I paid about 6k for that, a fresh 440, an airgrabber setup including the dash frame, and a newly rebuilt front end. The previous owner had the interior done, it turned out to be crap, and it needed a ton of body work. I traded it for a rolling Duster with mini-tubs that I turned around and sold.
Another trans question - the car creeps in neutral, and always has. I replaced all the soft parts incl clutches steels and bands and checked the clearances, but when it was all said and done, it still creeped. The shifter cable was adjusted correctly so it's something inside the case.
I read that this is caused by a too tight clutch pack. I'm pretty sure all the clearances were out of spec loose, not tight, but I need to at least check it before putting the trans back in. I also understand it might be the valve body, but I don't want to pull the trans after I've put it back in. Once and done.
The Munro book and I presume the FSM gives clutch clearance with a dry pack. These have now been soaked and run in. Are the clearances for a dry pack close enough for a wet pack?
And yes, the shifter cable was adjusted correctly, and yes, I still have that same wheelbarrow or at least the tray, everything from the handles down was replaced with better ones from a busted out plastic tray wheelbarrow that a contractor left here.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
I'm not sure about the creeping-in-neutral thing. Did you (or someone else) increase the clutch count? I guess the first thing I'd do prior to digging into it is check the band adjustments. You can use the semi-tweaky FSM procedure, but the Ricks (Ehrenberg and Allison) had a simple procedure based on clearance at the lever. Do I recall the clearances? No, I do not.
By no means am I dismissing the clutches, but I'd think a grabbing band could cause a similar issue.
By no means am I dismissing the clutches, but I'd think a grabbing band could cause a similar issue.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
IIRC the clutch count was correct for the drum. I remember that it had more than the common clutch count, but less than a Hemi maybe? Maybe they put it together too tight and then I just did the same thing, since the clearance is set by the snap ring and I definitely didn't replace that. I'm almost certain that I checked the clearance though. I used the procedures from the Munro book, whatever that is.
The bands are new and I adjusted them. I had the unit apart about as far as you can go with one. Whatever is going on, it was that way before I worked on it. It still had the same valve body before and after, so if the problem is there, it would've remained unchanged.
The bands are new and I adjusted them. I had the unit apart about as far as you can go with one. Whatever is going on, it was that way before I worked on it. It still had the same valve body before and after, so if the problem is there, it would've remained unchanged.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
Been a long time since it had fenders on it
I will put both fenders and the front valance, latch tray on it before shipping it off.
Also, more original paint for color
The kind of crap you get from AMD, and be thankful it's not worse:
I will put both fenders and the front valance, latch tray on it before shipping it off.
Also, more original paint for color
The kind of crap you get from AMD, and be thankful it's not worse:
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
In most cases, AMD is the best repro stuff you'll find. So yeah, it could be GoldenStar or Goodmark, either of which probably would be much worse.
You can always pony up for NOS. My friend that actually works for AMD bought as much NOS sheetmetal as he could find for his '68 Charger. Some of the panels are doubles (which he'll sell to recoup some of his investment) but he'll still have five digits' worth of investment just in panels. Yes, they fit better but they're not perfect either (holes not stamped, flanges missing, etc.). He said the AMD stuff is great and he's glad it's around to save cars that might otherwise be lost. The Charger was his first car (1985) and he's doing the work himself, so not only does he want the best parts available, he wants the least fuss in assembling the car... so he's spending the long green to do it.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
They're coming to get it this week, I told them any time, any day is fine so long as the weather is good. I'm waiting on a call back.
Both fenders and the valance are on it now. I've got to set up the sawhorses to hold the hood and get a hand to move it off the roof of the car.
It makes me nervous to think of the car with no transmission or parking brake making a 50 mile trip on a roll back but they do it all day long. I guess too that if things are going to go bad, they're going to go bad regardless. Being in park wont save it if it's not chained/strapped down correctly.
Both fenders and the valance are on it now. I've got to set up the sawhorses to hold the hood and get a hand to move it off the roof of the car.
It makes me nervous to think of the car with no transmission or parking brake making a 50 mile trip on a roll back but they do it all day long. I guess too that if things are going to go bad, they're going to go bad regardless. Being in park wont save it if it's not chained/strapped down correctly.
b-body-bob
Well-known member
With any luck it will be leaving here tomorrow.
I'm having sick twisted thoughts of getting a set of Mexican blanket seat covers made for it. The problem will be finding blankets that go with the green and black. (There's a huge wait for seat covers according to Dante's web site.)
I'm having sick twisted thoughts of getting a set of Mexican blanket seat covers made for it. The problem will be finding blankets that go with the green and black. (There's a huge wait for seat covers according to Dante's web site.)
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
How long will they have it ?
the way I'm going I may send mine over too.
I had the other car;s seat covers done at a shop, they made them & were pretty close to factory look?
about a grand 10 years ago, probably 2 now!
the way I'm going I may send mine over too.
I had the other car;s seat covers done at a shop, they made them & were pretty close to factory look?
about a grand 10 years ago, probably 2 now!
b-body-bob
Well-known member
They will have it until I run out of money LOL. Two quarter panels, fix the tubs, misc welding, one rusty place, and a multitude of scrapes and dents on the fenders and doors.
It will be put on a rotisserie and sandblasted but it's not going to be a dead nuts restoration - it's too late for that.
I hope to be able to stick with it until it's painted and the dash, glass, and headliner are in, then I will take over. I'm expecting six months and hoping for less.
I was forewarned about how much this will likely end up costing by a guy at moparts who is getting out of the resto business (TJP). That's one reason why I'm planning to do the bulk of reassembly. The other is that I've got the skills to do that myself.
FWIW another part of me says that if material cost is sky high for base clear shiny green and all that involves, I should look at a single stage paint to save some $$ since it's not a restoration anyway. Shiny paint causes stress.
This looks close but of course you need the actual chips or a spray out to know for sure.
Summit Racing SUM-UP323G Summit Racing™ Single Stage Paints | Summit Racing
It will be put on a rotisserie and sandblasted but it's not going to be a dead nuts restoration - it's too late for that.
I hope to be able to stick with it until it's painted and the dash, glass, and headliner are in, then I will take over. I'm expecting six months and hoping for less.
I was forewarned about how much this will likely end up costing by a guy at moparts who is getting out of the resto business (TJP). That's one reason why I'm planning to do the bulk of reassembly. The other is that I've got the skills to do that myself.
FWIW another part of me says that if material cost is sky high for base clear shiny green and all that involves, I should look at a single stage paint to save some $$ since it's not a restoration anyway. Shiny paint causes stress.
This looks close but of course you need the actual chips or a spray out to know for sure.
Summit Racing SUM-UP323G Summit Racing™ Single Stage Paints | Summit Racing
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
Perhaps you could get a paper route?
Base/clear isn't any shinier than single stage. Its only real advantage is ease of repair (scratches, collision damage, etc.)
Single-stage has better depth/accuracy of color and is more accurate for a restoration since that's what on the car when new. A layer of clear acts with a prismatic effect; light changes speed (bends) between open air and that layer, and again on the way back out. Everyone knows the trick: Place a pen or pencil in a half-full (or empty, depending on attitude) glass of water, and view the pen/pencil from a high angle. It appears bent.
No need to try "close enough" by ordering from Summit. Just about any local paint jobber should be able to mix single-stage with no issue.
Semi-humorous side note: One famous high-quality single-stage paint was DuPont Imron. If you read car magazines in the '70s or '80s, you probably remember reading that name dozens or hundreds of times. It was the go-to show car paint. I mixed Imron in the late 1980s; at that time it was balls expensive--the priciest we had, and few would pay for it. Time marches on, chemistry advances, and nobody even thought about Imron in years. It's still available, but these days it's marketed as inexpensive equipment enamel.
