My 71 Duster work in progress

[b-body-bob]

What I meant is, I bought the A12 440 when it had non-adjustable rockers. Me, being a regular racecar roy, decided it needed adjustables. I don't remember where the pushrods came from, but I basically just bought a set and used them. There was no measuring or messing around. Put them in, adjust, and go.

Of course they weren't ball-ball, I didn't mean to imply that.

I remember at that time I also bought a pair of banana groove shafts from Hughes and when the box got here one was missing because it had punched its way out the end of the box. They sent a replacement out no fuss no muss. I don't remember messing with Dave or whatever his name is, it was an employee.

That motor's got a grade-A valve train in it in that regard.

Anyway it's like a mystery how I just happened to buy the right length pushrods? But I did.

 

[b-body-bob]

OK I ran the valves one more time, so I'm done with that. I think the next thing to do is pour oil in and prime it. The intake is not bolted on yet. Then I can dress it as much as possible and set it on the k-frame.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

When you get to the prime stage can you detail how you do that for me, not sure if I can or can't now, everything's together but the distributor is still out?

 

[b-body-bob]

You need a good drill, a priming tool (hex rod stock) and to pull the intermediate shaft/gear. That is what the distributor slots into. Turn it with a big screwdriver to walk it up, try to hook it with a coat hanger or something and lift it out.

You need to be careful about the intermediate bushing and not let the priming tool beat it up.

You will know when it gets pressure. Spin the drill CW for small block, CCW for big block.

You need to turn the engine over to bring oil to the top, The notes I've got for small block has the driver's side getting oil at when the crank is at 90* BTDC on #1, and the passenger side oiling happening at 20* ATDC on #6. You should see it at the rocker arms.

Once you're done you need to reposition the intermediate shaft/gear so the distributor ends up in the right place when you put that in and time the engine. I don't know exactly where it is, but in general the slot should point at something with the motor at TDC on #1. Google ought to disclose that to you, or refer to the FSM that kind of shows where everything should be pointing and line it up from there.

 

[b-body-bob]

After I've primed the motor and installed a few odds and ends the fun part starts when I mount it to the k-frame and see how that cart holds up.

Then I will install everything on the back of the motor and the headers and shove it underneath. I still wish I had a run-in stand.

I measured the crank and it sure seemed deep enough for a 4-speed based on an illustration from Brewer's. I have a Magnum style roller pilot, but wondered if there is any benefit to driving a brass pilot bushing in too (if one will fit) I don't know if I would be able to reliably figure out if it's reamed to size for it or not.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

I have the notes (thanks Jass) on all he points for the distributor, not sure if I want to chance messing up that intermediate shaft???
this motor was never torn down, I just did the rockers, so my thinking is just get the intermediate pointing at the right bolt with #1 piston up on compression & balancer at 0 (I think gotta check the note) & I should be pretty close?

 

[Dr.Jass]

I don't prime the engine until shortly--minutes--before I'm going to start it. It'll "lose prime" if it sits, i.e. the oil pump will drain back into the pan, since the system isn't sealed on the pressure side of the pump. You'll still have oil remaining in the filter, of course, but the pump itself is still starting from zero to fill the gap between pan and filter inlet. Priming also helps rinse away all the expensive assembly lube slathered all over the place.

I use a cordless drill for this, an older Makita 9.6V. When the drill starts to drag, the pump is primed. Running it any longer really doesn't accomplish much if anything if you glommed assembly lube everywhere like I do (valve tips, rockers, etc.).

 

[b-body-bob]

Priming also helps rinse away all the expensive assembly lube slathered all over the place.

Yeah that just occurred to me. I probably won't bolt the intake down until much later, long after it's on the K-frame. I don't mind having access to the valley. No need to prime it now. That's kind of why I said it out loud - to be sure what I ought to be doing.

I should be pretty close?

If you follow Jass' instructions, you will be golden.

 

[Dr.Jass]

For what it's worth (and that's very little) I don't crank the engine while priming. Why? Well, again: I've put break-in lube on every moving contact point in the engine. It's on the bearings, pushrods, valve tips, inside the rocker arms, etc. Everything's dripping with it. I prime the pump, drop the distributor in, say a quick prayer, and twist the key.

If the pump's primed and the filter's full, it's only going to take maybe a second or two for the oil to reach everything once it's running. Hand cranking during priming seems counterproductive to me. You're smearing all that lube off the splash-oiled cam & lifters while pressure-washing it out of all the other places you put it. Then all the oil in the system drains back whilst correctly positioning the intermediate shaft and installing the distributor. Everything other than the pump and filter has to re-prime on startup anyhow, but now you've efficiently washed away a high percentage of the lube you so carefully drizzled (fo' shizzle). What was the advantage again?

Make no mistake, others will tell you loudly that I'm quite insane and your engine will blow up with resounding exuberance on the first drive, only feet from your driveway. You do you. The factory didn't touch the engine once it was in the car much less prime it, and they put a 5/50 warranty on it.

 

[68R/T]

Being that Rusty's engine has been previously run, and well seasoned, I wouldn't do any more than crank it with the coil wire off until the oil gauge shows pressure.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

Added to notes, now I need a pressure guage, this car just had the dumb dumb light.
Would like one anyway, they had added guages to the other car.

 

[b-body-bob]

For what it's worth (and that's very little) I don't crank the engine while priming. Why? Well, again: I've put break-in lube on every moving contact point in the engine. It's on the bearings, pushrods, valve tips, inside the rocker arms, etc. Everything's dripping with it. I prime the pump, drop the distributor in, say a quick prayer, and twist the key.

If the pump's primed and the filter's full, it's only going to take maybe a second or two for the oil to reach everything once it's running. Hand cranking during priming seems counterproductive to me. You're smearing all that lube off the splash-oiled cam & lifters while pressure-washing it out of all the other places you put it. Then all the oil in the system drains back whilst correctly positioning the intermediate shaft and installing the distributor. Everything other than the pump and filter has to re-prime on startup anyhow, but now you've efficiently washed away a high percentage of the lube you so carefully drizzled (fo' shizzle). What was the advantage again?

Make no mistake, others will tell you loudly that I'm quite insane and your engine will blow up with resounding exuberance on the first drive, only feet from your driveway. You do you. The factory didn't touch the engine once it was in the car much less prime it, and they put a 5/50 warranty on it.

Makes sense. It's not like there could be anything wrong with the rocker oiling at this point. I don't think. It's a pretty simple system.

 

[b-body-bob]

I thought Edelbrock heads were stock replacements. This is what I've got using a reproduction bracket kit.

I'm hopeful that it will tweak into place but am also skeptical that will work without screwing up the threads in the had.


I'm just thankful we have reproduction parts available

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

Does anything go smooth for us on these old cars.

 

[b-body-bob]

Does anything go smooth for us on these old cars.

I bought reproduction parts so it would go smooth and I wouldn't end up with some variant that won't work. Surprise surprise.

This is amusing. Which mark do I use, the one cast into the timing cover or the bolt on job?




The PS pump aligns with the WP and the front pulley. The alternator looks like it will align with the middle crank pulley once I get a bracket that works.

I don't think that belt setup will work. On the 400 the WP/alt were on the same belt and the PS pump was driven off a single belt off the crank. Exactly opposite of what I've got here.

 

[b-body-bob]

I found a chrome china bracket that wouldn't work on the last small block I had. It works on this one. Now the bolt's too long but that's fixable with a trip to the hardware store.

The pulley situation isn't so easy to solve. Looks like I'm going to need a single WP pulley w/o AC, and a double crank pulley. Buying new that's 87+129 + shipping Thinking of buying new to avoid the guesswork and 20 questions routine with ebay sellers and still ending up with the wrong parts.

 

[Dr.Jass]

First off, I'd use the marks on the timing cover. They can't move. I don't recall ever having one of those bolt-on units, much less using one.

I guess I can't tell from the photos what's going on with the alternator brackets unless it's a pulley-alignment problem. The way they sit in relation to each other is almost exactly the same as what's on my Valiant:

With that said, I've read elsewhere that (at least) the Speedmaster heads require modification due to the surface being further forward as opposed to a factory cast head (it's "thicker" in that area). Whether that holds true for Edelbrock, I'm not sure. It would seem shortening the spacer is the solution. I don't know how much, though. It's something I'll have to address eventually when I get around to using my Speedmaster heads, but those are still in their boxes. To quote Kev whenever I have issues with my W2s: "That's what you get for using hot-rod parts."

Pulleys are always a pain in the ass, whether it be looking 'em up or digging through a pile to see what works. The 1970-'71 318/340 parts are:
2951836 fan
2946789 crank

Curiously, the 1974 parts books show different pulleys between a 318 and 360. Shown for the 318 are:
2951836 fan (same as 1970-'71 318/340)
3614378 crank

The 360 parts are shown as:
3769130 fan
3769135 crank

The 318/360 difference must be involve diameters, since both crank dampers are the same depth at the pulley's mounting surface. Alternator spacers, mounting and adjusting brackets are the same for both engines. You may be able to mix/match these numbers, with the caveat that the water pump and crank pulleys can get pretty cozy:

I have no idea of the origins of that water pump pulley, but I doubt it's a match to the single-groove crank pulley. It clears, it aligns, and with the proper thermostat cooling hasn't been an issue, having idled over half an hour in 97° heat. It never went over 180°.

Don't worry, the pulley bolts got painted later (although they're supposed to be black oxide).

 

[b-body-bob]

With the alternator on the repop bracket, the top bolt align with the bolt hole in the head. With the new bracket, it does.

Also, with the repop bracket and spacers, it all ended up about 1/2" or so off the head. I didn't check that with the chromed bracket but making a spacer is NBD anyway. But now the bolt shoots straight through the bracket and into the head but the bolt is about 1/2" too long so I need to replace that.

I've got to buy at least one pulley because originally it was an A/C motor and the A/C compressor acts as an idler for the alternator, so it needs a WP pulley that lines up with the alternator. I tried the big block pulley collection I've got and they were all too large in diameter. Makes sense, the block is taller.

It also needs a 2-groove crank pulley with the inner groove for the WP/alt and an outer groove for the WP. The 400 that came out of this may have that on it. If so, all I need is the WP pulley and I'm your uncle.

(WP: BPE Water Pump Pulley - Bouchillon Performance Engineering, crank: BPE Double-Groove Crankshaft Pulley - Bouchillon Performance Engineering)

 

[b-body-bob]

From FABO regarding the timing mark:

This is where TDC ended up on my 408 build

That's about where the middle of the peep hole is.

I agree with you Jass, I don't see how the cast in mark could be wrong. Now I've gotta make a piston stop and figure it out.

I thought that peep hole was meant to move the timing mark from one side to the other to where you can see it but it doesn't work installed toward the other side at all.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Jeez, I didn't even notice in your picture that the bolt wasn't into the head. My powers of observation fail me.

Looking at a picture of my engine before the alternator was installed, it looks like the bolt holes are in the same place between the Ed L. Brock heads and the W2s. My brackets are reproductions as well, and they fit perfectly. At first I thought they were defective, but I was trying to install the bracket in the wrong place on the alternator (it was a fore/aft issue). I was sent another set, and by the time they arrived I'd figured out my mistake. I bought them from Van's Auto, and they came in a Ziploc bag with an instruction sheet--which I obviously ignored--brackets, spacers, and bolt.

Something's horseshit here, especially if you have a bracket that does fit. You clearly have a '70-up timing cover since the marks are on the driver's side, an aluminum pump which is also 1970 & newer, and repro brackets for the same application. The holes in the heads never changed position across LA production to my knowledge. If the bracket that fits has one curved side and a hole through the middle of it, that's a 1969-older part for use with an iron water pump. That setup used different spacers, including one behind the bracket at the timing cover, due to the cast-iron water pump. Since the holes in the head never changed, it makes no sense why one bracket fits and the other doesn't.

As an additional snafu, the early bracket is flat and mounts the alternator in a different position laterally. The '70-up pulleys won't align to the alternator pulley using the '69-older bracketry. Literally everything changed with the aluminum water pump, so there's no mixing and matching across the dividing line without some kind of fabrication or butchery.

I'm not sure what the solution is, because I really can't figure out why it won't align.

As far as the pulleys go, the 318 numbers I posted from the 1974 parts book are common on eBay, which isn't surprsing since both are probably the most-common Mopar pulleys on the planet. One user posted photos with depth measurements of both his crank and water pump pulleys, showing they'll align. Both are "best offer" listings. Regarding new, if Bouchillon's information is to be believed (and I see no reason to doubt them), then 440Source sells the same crankshaft pulley for $50 less. 440Source's pulley measurements also align with those in the eBay listing. I've never dealt with 440Source but I've heard wonderful things. I have dealt with Bouchillon and will avoid doing so at any cost in the future. I'm not alone.

It does look like dude's stroker motor would align with the bolt-on timing "mark" you have. However, with a Chinese crank and just-as-Asian damper, all bets are off. With a factory steel crank, OE damper and timing cover, my W2 engine's timing marks are as dead-nuts at TDC as one could hope. They're misaligned by maybe 1/2°, which I'd call "close enough for what I'm doing". That's not to say yours is, of course, so making a piston stop out of an old spark plug is a great idea.