My 71 Duster work in progress

[b-body-bob]

My problem with the z-bar might be that I'm putting the cable in with the column, brakes, wiring, etc all in place.

The routing is the same on the Valiant, and the front cable ends well past the rear edge of the door; the length given by Dorman of 90.83" jives with my experience of trying to keep the prick out of the way whilst working under there. If you look at that diagram, the splitter is the end of the front cable. I put the chassis-side clutch ball on my car with the OE cable still in place with no interference. I'm sure you're aware of this, but for those following along at home: the front cable passes through the hole formed where the firewall, inner fender, and frame rail join at the lower corner of the firewall. It anchors outside the frame rails in the outrigger support for the rocker, then passes diagonally back inside the frame perimeter between the front and rear rails. This is a picture of the Valiant before we'd messed with the brake cable; it's still connected to both the handle and the frame rail. The cable hugs the firewall pretty tightly, almost tighter than one would like.

View attachment 21995


My frame connectors required the cable to be routed differently than OE. The cable can't be run through the frame connector 'pon the left-hand side (I say!) without cutting offset ovals into it through which the cable could pass. That's more layout work than my car justifies. There are holes in the factory T-bar crossmember almost designed for my routing, which keeps it inside the frame rail. I still haven't got clearance issues with the clutch mechanism; mind you, my car can be driven (as long as you don't want to use the parking brake). If anything, my new cable routing might leave some excess cable in the engine bay, but I think it'll clear the torque shaft without issue. Heck the brake might be easier to engage/release because of the more-gentle radius in that area. We ended up using the original brake-cable opening for the front-to-rear hydraulic brake line.

View attachment 21997

View attachment 21998


I'm not sure how the double-slug cable works, since the parts-book diagram didn't change. It still shows the clevis, but if it's removable it doesn't list it as a separate part. However, the lever to which the cable attaches changed in '72, as the did cable routing--dramatically. That sufficiently explains the length difference. The orange-circled area shows the "sneak it through the corner" routing spot of the cable, to the outside of the frame rail, same as '68-'71.

View attachment 21994


Since everything's in and connected, I'm sure as long as you use a '68-'71 mechanism, you'll likely be fine. The lever with the attachment point is the same during those years. In 1967, only a little surprisingly, it's a different number. That seems to be a good year for A-body one-off shit, like dash structure and idler arm.

I'll be sure to pay attention to the cable on whatever parts car I end up taking the mechanism from to be sure it will work with my cable.

 

[b-body-bob]

I've got rear brakes now so I put the tires on and set it back on the ground and started looking at the front end.

The brakes as you can see are crusty. The annual inspection sticker expired in 11/09 so it hasn't been touched since then or shortly after


The rotors are basically at the min thickness (0.75") so they are too thin to be resurfaced and no you can't buy them.

The photo doesn't really show it but the dust seals are dry rotted. Kits are available, and calipers are $125 for the cheapest I found.


The rest of the front end is worn out, as expected.



There are some slight grooves in the surface but I might be able to get by with just using a scotch-brite pad on the rotors. If not this is a lost cause from the start since there is no replacing them. Or, I can find a big ball joint setup that I can buy parts for.

I've also got to buy a small ball joint socket and take it all apart for a rebuild, and I won't be surprised if the small ball joint parts aren't more expensive than the big parts.

So, I put the wheel back on it, put it on the ground again and I'm going to go buy some gasoline for it. Time to make some noise.

 

[Stretch]

You can buy the rotors. Jass recently purchased a set for his car and I will be ordering a set for my 65 soon.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Why can't you buy rotors? VA law or something? They're readily available: Bendix number PRT1054, Centric number 121.63005. You can add an L and an R to that Centric number if you want fancy cross-drilled/slotted ones, but expect the price to more than double. PowerStop sells cross-drilled/slotted rotors, number AR8305XPR... saw those for $83 online--that's for a pair.

As far as the calipers are concerned, the only option at the moment seems to be Cardone. Based on my experience with them over the last 20 years, I'd rather rebuild my existing ones. I used Centrics--our warehouse actually had them--and they were significantly less expensive than Cardone. They also had a fancy-lookin' nickel plating, which bodes well for slowing down corrosion.

If you just want to clean the rotors for the moment, use a random orbital "palm" sander with some 80-120 grit paper.

You should take video of your startup and post it, particularly if you have open headers. I posted the first-start video of the Valiant here. Obviously I had a bit of fun with it. There's also a lovely view of my parking brake cable tucked up under the car.

 

[69.5CUDA]

doc the going thru the center member is EXACTLY what i did on the preachers rolled 69 fish and that was the SMOOTHEST e-brake ive ever felt

something to consider ...and maybe you have, but being the duster is a "short" body and by all rights a 67-69fish under the bodywork, would it be worth checking the listings to compare notes and see what the fish used for cables? i couldnt help but wonder if the dusters used the leftover parts from them instead of using dart/valiant 4dr parts which would be too long by a considerable amount

 

[69.5CUDA]

ill second that on the rotors i can get them here too without much fuss...but i ALWAYS have to have them looked up as 68 dart GT with a 340...dont ask me why but its the only way the key punching parts grabbers can actualy find them...a few years back i even went looking for calipers..and found i could get rebuilt ones again for WAY less than i could rebuild them..again...i had to use a dart to find them...as soon as you add duster, demon, barracuda, valiant to it most prgramed machines instantly saw "drums only"...68 and 69 dart with a performance option almost always nets the correct KH discs

hell if i try to pull up parts for my 67 fish...9 out of 10 times they wont even list the "big" front drums only the dinky scary ones swap over to valiant same deal swap over to dart and hey looky there the big front drums

i learned a VERY VERY long time ago..when looking for mopar parts, know your interchange and use the most common car that had what you need NOT YOUR CAR

as for the e-brake route hug tight to the floor and go over the nub

 

[b-body-bob]

I didn't think the PRT 1054 would work based on the on-line photo.

How does the hub from this one work with that?

If that will work with the hub I've got, then yeah I'm golden.

I was thinking of using a scotch-brite cookie or two to clean up the brake surface in the short term.

ETA watching the Browns play took precedence over getting the car started. It didn't seem to be pulling fuel before I gave up. I remembered I have a remote starter switch and a pressure gauge at the carb so I held it down until it pumped up just now. I've got the timing screwed up so all I got was a healthy pop out the carb. Probably blew out the power valve.

It's not uncapped. I'll get it running tomorrow.

 

[Stretch]

The wheel studs press through the rotor and into the hub. They drive out easily with a swift hammer blow. I use my air hammer usually. A press makes assembly much easier but it can be done with washers and nuts pulling them in. A drift pin and hammer will install them as well but a press is without a doubt the best way to assemble.

 

[Dr.Jass]

something to consider ...and maybe you have, but being the duster is a "short" body and by all rights a 67-69fish under the bodywork, would it be worth checking the listings to compare notes and see what the fish used for cables? i couldnt help but wonder if the dusters used the leftover parts from them instead of using dart/valiant 4dr parts which would be too long by a considerable amount

Until 1970, the Barracuda uses the exact same parts as the Valiant. The Duster's its own beast on this one, along with the '71 Demon.

Bob, as Stretchosaurus Rex said, the wheel studs hold the hubs to the rotors. While it's apart, it's a good time to consider new bearings, races, & seals. New studs are still available from Dorman if for any reason you want to replace them. I did, since half of mine were LH thread (as one might expect).

 

[69.5CUDA]

trick for re-installing the studs
use the old rotor as your "base" IE treat it as if it was a wheel, toss your hub ontop of it then your new rotor put all your studs in and you can fully hammer drive them in this way....i DO NOT condone pulling the small bolt wheel studs in by washer and torque as they stretch and snap FAR tooo easy and doing it this way even makes doing it with a press more possible...hell if your vice has a deep enough jaw you can actualy use a couple of sockets and extensions to press them in as well....tho the use of the old rotor as a pass thru stand has served me well

doc you know this and i know this but many a parts book has shown me otherwise in the past,....whats ALWAYS screwed with me tho is the WB..how can the valiant share everything with the fish when its wheelbase is DART...meanwhile the duster body even has the barracuda fastback fold down seat mounts and divots in its rear wheel house...its as if the entire "tub" is left over fastback fish...hell if the duster is the same wheelbase as a fish..that means body brake line driveline, carpet "should" be actualy shared with the fish

admitedly ive never checked all the part numbers of the duster/demon bodys but ive had the luck of them side by side with a 69 fastback at one point and boy oh boy compared to a valiant or dart....well you egt the idea

 

[b-body-bob]

I know how to remove / install studs. I worked in service stations back when they actually fixed cars and didn't sell microwave burritos. I've replaced rotors with separate hubs before too, but nothing like this setup. The studs don't look like they hold anything together.

I guess I'll have to take the rotor off to figure it out.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Yeah, the knurling on the studs doesn't even make it to the rotor hat's face, as I recall.

Someone, somewhere makes a 1-piece replacement rotor (I've seen 'em on eBay). I tell you that with the reservation that I've never used them, nor do I think I know anyone who has. I don't take brake stuff lightly, considering the consequences, so I prefer to stick with established sources for those parts... you know, multi-million dollar companies actually worth suing.

...whats ALWAYS screwed with me tho is the WB..how can the valiant share everything with the fish when its wheelbase is DART...

I'm not sure which car you mean "is Dart", but Valiants and Barracudas shared the same wheelbase throughout Barracuda production: 106" from 1964-'66, and 108" from 1967-'74. Darts have a 111" wheelbase, longer than even Challengers (110").

 

[b-body-bob]

Yeah, the knurling on the studs doesn't even make it to the rotor hat's face, as I recall.

Someone, somewhere makes a 1-piece replacement rotor (I've seen 'em on eBay). I tell you that with the reservation that I've never used them, nor do I think I know anyone who has. I don't take brake stuff lightly, considering the consequences, so I prefer to stick with established sources for those parts... you know, multi-million dollar companies actually worth suing.


I'm not sure which car you mean "is Dart", but Valiants and Barracudas shared the same wheelbase throughout Barracuda production: 106" from 1964-'66, and 108" from 1967-'74. Darts have a 111" wheelbase, longer than even Challengers (110").

Yeah I gotta say I've never seen a stud like these. I was 10 years old in 71 and I guess if I ever changed one when I was working in a garage the complete assembly was available.

I popped them out with my handy dandy ball pein hammer and it's plain to see how it comes apart and since they're available I'll go ahead and replace the braking surfaces instead of messing around trying to save the parts I've got.

I guess next I need to rig something up and drive the hub out the front of it. I've got a 20t press but I gotta say the older I get the more afraid I am of something under pressure flying out and knocking my head off.

The caliper pistons are a mess. I took photos but left the camera in the garage. Doubtful I'll get back out there before tomorrow. I haven't split one yet though, I'm waiting on the penetrating oil to do something.

 

[b-body-bob]

One more question before I place the orders to get the frontend/brake parts I need and tear it all down - how do you get the pistons out of the caliper? The FSM uses a special tool. I remember using air to pop single pistons out. Will that work with the 4 piston setup?

 

[Dr.Jass]

Yes... and no. The trick is that one or more pistons will probably move more freely than the others, and once one pops out you're sorta dead in the water for using air. What we did on a '66 300 decades ago was get each piston moving a little with the other ones C-clamped. Then we clamped all four loosely, applied air until the pistons were tight, then backed off the clamps a little. Rinse, repeat until the either the seals are clear or the pistons are loose enough to remove by hand. I'm not sure about clearance, though... you might have to split the calipers to get the pistons all the way out.

I'm sure there's a better way, but none of us were trained wrenches. It worked on the big C-body Budd calipers.

 

[b-body-bob]

Well that sounds like a total PITA and a great way to get one or more pistons cocked in the bore and stuck. Looking at Google, that seems to be the way it's done though.

I found a Hot Rod Magazine article from 2001 that basically said just send them to Master Power Brakes and pay them, but of course they don't do that in 2021.

 

[Dr.Jass]

We didn't have any get any more stuck than they already were, nor did they cock on us. Just a little finesse to not try and blast them hard against the C-clamps, which as you can imagine can be sorta tricky to keep centered when they're not tight.

You could also do all four individually, getting them each as far out as possible while the other three are clamped... our way took longer, but you'd have to know Ed, too. Slow, methodical, had to all come out at the same rate. Another thing you might try is clamping the two outboard pistons, getting the inboards out, then splitting the caliper and using the transfer-tube fitting as your air inlet. You'd sorta be doing half at a time.

If you're replacing the pistons--an option we didn't have due to availability--you could also just use air enough to get them moving, then channel-lock the pricks out. I know kits are available for those calipers but didn't actually check to see if pistons, or kits containing them, are still around.

Ah, magazines... all of their tech surrounds throwing a bone to their advertisers. Well, except Ehrengberg who was always saying, "Use this unobtainium NOS Mopar part number" instead.

 

[69.5CUDA]

theres a couple options for stuck pistions...when air fails..grease and a gun may not.

HOWEVER my prefered method on "stuck" ones is to bake them and hit em with air, on REALLY bad ones ill go so far as to hit em with atf/acetone mix while hot pour some inside and hit em with air

extra extra bad ones ill bake up and then ice the piston and then try a shot of air...keep in mind if it comes out some and gets re-stuck.. push that sumbitch back in and try again...keep doing it and youll get a lil more movement each time

like doc said tho the trick is having not all of them come all the way out in the case of the KH what i found best was often times to use old brake pads as a stop plate and generaly flip the pads so that the braking surface is tward the pistons that way it can give a bit when they inevitably come flying out


alfa gtv6/75 brakes make our KH easy by comparision

the final trick i can give is..let the easy ones come out...clean the bores and the pistons and then stuff them back in and lock them down part way in..then worry about the offenders...if you have some 1/8th inch rubber sheet you can channel lock the "free" ones with it and not hurt them....also..sometimes rotating a piston stuck in its bore can help drasticly

 

[b-body-bob]

The pistons are available so I could replace those. I'll see what happens when I finally tear them apart, maybe tonight. I'm kind of leery about splitting the caliper and having one of them come flying out of there under pressure. With my luck it would smack a dent in the A-pillar, crack the windshield, and bounce back to hit me in the nuts.

I had practically no brakes at all so they may be stuck. The rust on the rotors and those stupid Versailles discs on the rear sure didn't help things though. The outside of the pistons are funky and I poured rust out of the pistons for the one I took off. The fittings and bleeder are all stuck too and those aren't going to budge.

SSBC has new not rebuilt calipers, $200 each, confirmed with customer support. They also have a "comp S quick-change caliper kit" for about $560 that are all new parts, and look like billet alu. Man I hate to say it but the $200 calipers may be the sure route to go. I would be really PO'd if I rebuilt the brakes and front end only to have the pistons start sticking in the bore because of the old casting.



Hopefully I'll be able to get at least one of the pistons out tonight to see what's what in there.

FWIW I keep finding options. 10.95" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 1)

 

[69.5CUDA]

honestly at that price...i dont blame you one bit

like i said baking has been my goto for a LONG time now and it works VERY well, you might even get the bleeder and lines out while hot...oh right...another lil thing try to push them in a lil while hot before trying to get them to come out it breaks the rubber free, and on the lines n bleeder it will typicaly break the rust free tightening that lil bit so they come out, i dont even let them cool, put on the welding gloves and get to work, when they start cooling toss em back in....some calipers have taken several days and 350+deg, i try not to go that hot off the bat....but if they are stuck stuck the higher you go the higher your chances

i wonder if anyone still puts stainless liners in these?