My 71 Duster work in progress

Dr.Jass said:
If the axle is A-body width, the only issue should be the location of the brake-line tee.
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The axle is A-body width, with 10x2 brakes. I ordered brake lines for a 71 A-body, and the driver's side is too short, the passenger's side is too long. So at least according to Fine Lines, the 71 rear tee is not at 7-3/4".

So now I've got two defective 71 rear bumpers and a brake line set to resell.

I might try to contact Dr Diff to see what his opinion is, because he's sure seen more of these things than I have. OTOH, the last thing I need is another part that isn't worth enough to fool with returning, and am thinking screw it and making my own lines. I've done it before. They weren't as pretty as they could be but they worked.
 
I had no idea which year axle I had. It came with the car but wasn't original to it. I figured it out, but I've forgotten since 2017 when I did all the rearend work. I thought the later axle had the tee further from the center section, and hence determined mine to be '71-ish. Everything was way too rusty to look for date stampings. I also had to dig through my seletion of factory axle tees, as those aren't universal either.

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I later had to bend those pretty lines out of the way of the inboard spring perches. They were connected at both ends, so I simply pulled on 'em and now they clear. 😄
 
Dr.Jass said:
I later had to bend those pretty lines out of the way of the inboard spring perches. They were connected at both ends, so I simply pulled on 'em and now they clear. 😄
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Yeah there's no reason to be exact so long as they're mostly hidden behind the rear end in those clips.

As best as I can tell both by measuring and moving the curved part over the U-bolts back and forth, there is 2" difference between the lines I bought and the lines I need.

I have what looks to be the same tee as in your photo, and the lines I bought want it positioned just like yours is. I measured the tee distance on mine and it's 7-3/4 from the CL. It's kind of odd that dr diff's site only lists options for 7-3/4 and 11-1/2 from CL, because these lines are obviously neither. Unless there's some monkey business going on with the backing plate and brake offset.

I've been measuring and looks like I need to get a 2' and a 4' stick of 3/16 and flare two ends. I couldn't be lucky enough that I could fudge around with a full stick so I can use the factory flares. If it wasn't for Covid and not wanting to go out, I would've already picked up what I need and got started on it.

I also thought about cutting them apart and add/subtract 2" using a flair union, but these brake lines are SS so chances of me getting a good flare are somewhere between slim and none.
 
Did you measure your axle width between the flanges, or just the perches. There's a part of me that strongly believes your "A-body" rear axle is nothing more than a B-body (bob) axle with the spring perches moved.

8_3-4Axles.jpg
 
and hell if its an EARLY B it may not even have the perches moved

you could just get a power flare setup and re-use the SS ones youve got instead of dumping more into new lines......
 
Dr.Jass said:
Did you measure your axle width between the flanges, or just the perches. There's a part of me that strongly believes your "A-body" rear axle is nothing more than a B-body (bob) axle with the spring perches moved.

View attachment 21961
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The width between the axles is 57-5/8, which is the width of an A-body rear + 1/2" offset increase for the BBP axles. The housing itself is a cut down unit from whatever. The guy sells them on e-bay as Mr Haney IIRC.

But the vent in it is damn sure at 7-3/4" from the CL. That and 11-/12 are what Dr Diff has as options. It has to be the offset and the different brakes that causes it. My mistake was thinking that a factory set would work.

I've got a local guy who hoards A-body parts that I'm going to try to move these lines and at least one of my bumpers to.
 
69.5CUDA said:
and hell if its an EARLY B it may not even have the perches moved

you could just get a power flare setup and re-use the SS ones youve got instead of dumping more into new lines......
Click to expand...
My 72 had a 67 b-body rear in it with the springs spread. It ain't a big deal no matter what the internet tells you.

I would've done the same thing here, and have a b-body housing and axles, but the damned bearings gears, hogshead, etc was going to cost me nearly as much as I paid for this rear, and I wasn't sure my wheels/tires would fit with the wider b-body rear.

There's nowhere to get a power flare anywhere here. I sunk a big $9 in 6 foot of line and $5 in a couple of tube nuts. I've got one side run, the passenger side is next. Like I said, I've done it before and it's not a big deal. It's what I should've done to begin with.
 
Still working on this brake-line puzzle in my head. With them screwed into the wheel cylinders, they end up about where my tee is? Or somewhere between mine and yours? The reason I'm hung up on this is that the difference in the A & B-body axle shafts are made up in the backing plate, which is why the A-body 10" plates won't work with the B-body 8¾ axles, nor the other way around (B plates, A axles). When I built the BBP rear axle for Not a Duster, repro lines of the correct year worked almost perfectly. I say "almost" because I think the increased drum diameter (his were 11"x2½") required a little bit of futzing... but they still worked.

When you speak of how much all the parts would've cost v. what you paid for that axle, you justify my hoarding. Whenever I see stuff like that inexpensively, I snap it up. I probably have ten carriers, six or seven of the various type of limited-slip diffs (I have two new Eaton True-Tracs), several housings and axle sets, and at least a dozen gear sets of varying ratios. Other than the Eatons, which were $550 each w/$100 rebate at the time, the most-expensive item I've got is a 3.91 cone-type 489 that cost me $350. Everything else was $200 or less. I'll never use all of it, but when I need something it's on the shelf... as long as I don't need 3.23s.

Anyhow, it's onward and upward with your project. If dude doesn't want those lines, let me know what you want for 'em... maybe I'll have you ship 'em to me with the brakes from your 7¼" axle.
 
im with ya there doc, im glad ive got my horde, tho i wish i had more "other" gear choices, ive got a few 3.23s 3.55s and a 391..after that its a jump to the 5.33s i got from you?..ive even got some 2 somethings, ive only got a couple SG units too...but i now have units for trucks as well....with all this talk tho youve got me wondering if i should part with my pile of backing plates n drums
 
Dr.Jass said:
Still working on this brake-line puzzle in my head. With them screwed into the wheel cylinders, they end up about where my tee is? Or somewhere between mine and yours? The reason I'm hung up on this is that the difference in the A & B-body axle shafts are made up in the backing plate, which is why the A-body 10" plates won't work with the B-body 8¾ axles, nor the other way around (B plates, A axles). When I built the BBP rear axle for Not a Duster, repro lines of the correct year worked almost perfectly. I say "almost" because I think the increased drum diameter (his were 11"x2½") required a little bit of futzing... but they still worked.

When you speak of how much all the parts would've cost v. what you paid for that axle, you justify my hoarding. Whenever I see stuff like that inexpensively, I snap it up. I probably have ten carriers, six or seven of the various type of limited-slip diffs (I have two new Eaton True-Tracs), several housings and axle sets, and at least a dozen gear sets of varying ratios. Other than the Eatons, which were $550 each w/$100 rebate at the time, the most-expensive item I've got is a 3.91 cone-type 489 that cost me $350. Everything else was $200 or less. I'll never use all of it, but when I need something it's on the shelf... as long as I don't need 3.23s.

Anyhow, it's onward and upward with your project. If dude doesn't want those lines, let me know what you want for 'em... maybe I'll have you ship 'em to me with the brakes from your 7¼" axle.
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I didn't screw those into anything, but holding the thing in place at the tee, it comes up short of the backing pate. Conversely, the other side is too long.

I don't understand it either, but it is what it is.
 
any chance you could flatten the bends a lil to gain what your missing and over bend the long side to get it right?
 
you would be suprised at how much you can flaten bends and gain space.....im not saying you should..just it might be an option
 
There is nothing quite like crawling around under a car to make you realize how old you are.

The brake lines are connected to the back and the e-brake cables installed front to back.

The next task is to find an e-brake assembly for under the dash, replace the front brake hoses and possibly the MC, and get my blast cabinet working.
 
Based on this thread, I was inspired to go do inventory on my brake cables and make certain I didn't already have some for the Valiant. I did not, but do now.

If you have difficulty finding a mechanism (or you're not willing to pay $80+shipping online), I know where there are several, very likely quite inexpensive. It's more a matter of your time frame v. my ability to get to that particular yard... which is largely dependent on Old Man Winter. No real snow to speak of at the moment, but we could get clobbered any day now.
 
Thanks for the offer but I'm pretty sure I can find one locally.

I'm still holding out some hope that I can get the one that should be in the car from the prior owner but I'm not confident of it finding it in her garage somewhere.

The guy with a mopar yard here has several a-bodies to choose from and I'm pretty sure they're all the same so it doesn't have to be a 71 model. I had planned to go down there this weekend, but the weather turned to crap. I need to get to that and several small parts before snake and hornet season returns, if I can't find them in the prior owner's garage.
 
You might be in a bit of a pickle if'n you already bought cables. I'd have to do a little more digging at work where I've got better interchange information, but it appears that the '70-'71 Duster/Demon front cable is a unique piece--it doesn't even fit other A-bodies--Mopar number 3575576. Strangely, Raybestos lists two in '71, both for front disc brakes: one for 9" drums (a combo Chrysler never made) and one for 10" drums, while Mopar only lists the one part number. The difference between the two Raybestos parts are the cable ends: the 10" brake listing is double-slug, i.e. a barrel crimped onto the cable on both ends--while the 9" drum has a threaded rod on one end and a clevis on the other. They're also different lengths; we'll get to that.

The '72-'74 part (Raybestos and Chrysler agree there's only the one) is slug/barrel on one end, clevis on the other. The Chrysler number is 3575624.

Now, far be it from me to trust aftermarket cataloguing much but if I'm guessing, one or both of the two Raybestos listings is wrong. While I'm guessing, I'd say the length is the issue with the cable part number changes. Raybestos does not list a '70 part number, but Dorman lists one @ 90.83"--they list the same cable for both my car and yours; Chrysler does not. Raybestos '71 listing for 9" drums is about 4.6" longer, while the one for 10" drums is a staggering 104.5" long. The '72-'74 part is dramatically shorter @ 55.88"--maybe uses intermediate cable? I didn't check. Of course, Chrysler was not so friendly as to list cable lengths... buy the number for the car and it fits, right?

Ultimately, in the end I think you'll be OK as long as you find a mechanism with the connection style that matches your cable, be it slug/barrel or clevis. If you're still dealing with OE cables in good shape, A) I hate you and B) that's easy enough. If you're dealing with new aftermarket parts, well, there be dragons.

And, of course, since you inspired (or at least reminded) me to purchase cables for the Valiant, you instilled the fear of God into me that I got the wrong parts. I had to go back and double-check. Luckily, all the '69 numbers cross to the Dorman parts I have.

While looking into that, I found that both our cars use the same left rear cable, but a different right. Kooky.
 
The cable is already in he car., but not connected to anything under the dash, because there is nothing to connect to yet. The dips even removed the cable clamp that attaches the cable housing to the under dash structure.

The cable I bought has a clevis on the end for a through pin to connect it to the e-brake. I'll need to be sure the mechanism I bought is correct for that. The cables I bought came from inline tube but who knows what company actually made them.

Here's a view of the setup for a 70, and my 71 under car routing is the same.
Emergency brake cable routing

It might be the double-slug cable reuses the clevis? I don't think it comes off but it might be slotted so it can be removed. Those lengths are sure odd, especially the one that's basically as long as the wheelbase. Maybe that's because it has to run across the car and then down the length of it? Anyway the cable I bought seems right, and reaches everything with enough slack so I'm pretty sure I'm good to go, once I get the matching under dash mechanism.

One gotcha is routing the thing from the firewall to the first frame stop. This car has a 4-speed clutch pivot ball on it right now that I'd rather just leave there, and the cable seems to get in the way of that. I'm not sure if it goes over it or under it. Things might change once I get it connected up under the dash and the amount of slack is limited.
 
The routing is the same on the Valiant, and the front cable ends well past the rear edge of the door; the length given by Dorman of 90.83" jives with my experience of trying to keep the prick out of the way whilst working under there. If you look at that diagram, the splitter is the end of the front cable. I put the chassis-side clutch ball on my car with the OE cable still in place with no interference. I'm sure you're aware of this, but for those following along at home: the front cable passes through the hole formed where the firewall, inner fender, and frame rail join at the lower corner of the firewall. It anchors outside the frame rails in the outrigger support for the rocker, then passes diagonally back inside the frame perimeter between the front and rear rails. This is a picture of the Valiant before we'd messed with the brake cable; it's still connected to both the handle and the frame rail. The cable hugs the firewall pretty tightly, almost tighter than one would like.

Cable.jpg


My frame connectors required the cable to be routed differently than OE. The cable can't be run through the frame connector 'pon the left-hand side (I say!) without cutting offset ovals into it through which the cable could pass. That's more layout work than my car justifies. 😄 There are holes in the factory T-bar crossmember almost designed for my routing, which keeps it inside the frame rail. I still haven't got clearance issues with the clutch mechanism; mind you, my car can be driven (as long as you don't want to use the parking brake). If anything, my new cable routing might leave some excess cable in the engine bay, but I think it'll clear the torque shaft without issue. Heck the brake might be easier to engage/release because of the more-gentle radius in that area. We ended up using the original brake-cable opening for the front-to-rear hydraulic brake line.

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I'm not sure how the double-slug cable works, since the parts-book diagram didn't change. It still shows the clevis, but if it's removable it doesn't list it as a separate part. However, the lever to which the cable attaches changed in '72, as the did cable routing--dramatically. That sufficiently explains the length difference. The orange-circled area shows the "sneak it through the corner" routing spot of the cable, to the outside of the frame rail, same as '68-'71.

72A Park.jpg


Since everything's in and connected, I'm sure as long as you use a '68-'71 mechanism, you'll likely be fine. The lever with the attachment point is the same during those years. In 1967, only a little surprisingly, it's a different number. That seems to be a good year for A-body one-off shit, like dash structure and idler arm.
 
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