My 71 Duster work in progress

[thrashingcows]

You still have to gap it, Bob.

And no a tape measure is not what you use either....

 

[Jester]

That motor sounds great!

 

[b-body-bob]

I can't get the idea out of my head of ordering a set of conversion mounts from Trans-dapt and sticking this 440 in the Dustpan.



It's going to be a year or more (definitely more) before I am anywhere near needing an engine for the road runner, so I could be tearing up hell with that 440 in the Duster while I'm waiting. It would be a huge improvement in the shit-eating grin department over the low compression 400.

I'm not sure if I'd want to use the road runner trans or not - but it is basically fresh as a daisy so it seems stupid not to use it and tempt that unknown transmission to fail on me.

 

[b-body-bob]

The Transdapt mounts are $100 less than Schumacher and I can't understand why

They're both made in the USA
The transdapt has "shipping paint" while the Schumachers are powder coated. I have some rustoleum ready to go.
The transdapt isolator needs to be cut. The Schumachers come cut. That just saves a few minutes with a sawzall.
The Schumacher kit comes with a template to trim the k-frame. AFAIK the transdapt kit does not. But I've already found the template online.

Transdapt: https://www.hedman.com/product-detail/4698
Schumacher: '67-72 A-Body V8 or S6 to Big Block Kit

In the photos it looks like the transdapt kit is short a nut and two washers, but they're in use on the one isolator that's bolted to the mount.

There has to be a difference but I'll be darned if I know what it is.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

Shoe horn that baby in there & have some fun!

 

[Dr.Jass]

I used the Trans-Dapt Slant-to-LA conversion mounts in my Valiant. They had a similar price difference, and I couldn't figure out why either. They worked splendidly. The only mod we did was use a chunk of metal plate around 3/32" thick as a spacer on the driver's-side mount for header clearance.

I was surprised to see the Schumacher mounts even listed as available. From my understanding, most of their stuff has been intergalactically backordered for a few years now. Either way, though, the price difference between those and the Trans-Dapt means I'd prefer to screw with the latter rather than part with the extra cash. The Trans-Dapt stuff predates Schumacher by a decade or more.

 

[b-body-bob]

I used the Trans-Dapt Slant-to-LA conversion mounts in my Valiant. They had a similar price difference, and I couldn't figure out why either. They worked splendidly. The only mod we did was use a chunk of metal plate around 3/32" thick as a spacer on the driver's-side mount for header clearance.

I had to do something similar on a /6 to 340 conversion I did. IRRC it was one or two pieces of 16ga, whatever that adds up to. That was with Schumacher mounts so they might even be exactly the same thing with more finishing on the Schumachers.

I was surprised to see the Schumacher mounts even listed as available. From my understanding, most of their stuff has been intergalactically backordered for a few years now. Either way, though, the price difference between those and the Trans-Dapt means I'd prefer to screw with the latter rather than part with the extra cash. The Trans-Dapt stuff predates Schumacher by a decade or more.

My understanding is Schumacher went OB for some reason, were bought by another company who, is slowly trying to make something out of their investment. I've seen them go one batch of BB headers and restock months later, so they're doing what they can. Those are probably their hottest product.

Thanks for the vote for Trans-Dapt, that is probably they way I'll go.

I took the intake off this weekend, probably shouldn't have bothered. The pan had a paper gasket between it and the block - dumb move. That thing was stuck like I used gorilla glue on it. The paper should've had the gasket between the pan and the intake. And yes, it needed it.



BTW I almost forgot - the rocker shafts have shims under them. I have forgotten all about them. I guess the heads have been milled. I replaced the shafts when I changed the rockers and without a doubt I just put the shims that were already there back in.

 

[b-body-bob]

I've been winding myself up to get ready to swap the weak 400 for the 440, and came *this close* to ordering the motor mount kit from Transdapt. First I thought, would switching to a spool type K-frame be any advantage?

As far as I can tell, both K-frames need modifications to fit the oil pump, and the Schumacher kit for the spool type is about 2x as expensive as the biscuit type. Am I missing something, or would I be better off to just stick with what I have and avoid more disassembly?

I'm still kind of leery about cutting the driver's side mounting pad because it seems like it doesn't leave a lot of metal right next to where the motor bolts up. When I do it, I will be welding some additional steel in there - if I can figure out exactly how and where to add it.

 

[RUSTY Cuda]

I'd never attempt something like that, I have enough trouble just putting the same parts back in!
Good luck in what ever you go for!

 

[b-body-bob]

Yeah, my eyesight isn't really up to it, but I've got a die grinder and a bodysaw, and I know how to use them so stand back!!

I've got a bare block to use when getting it right so the in and out part won't be as difficult as it could be.

I was thinking about going to a manual steering setup while I'm at it, but the Schumacher headers work with a 440 and PS so there's no reason to do that AFAICT.

 

[Dr.Jass]

The spool-type mounts are "fail safe", meaning they can't rip completely loose. That's a beautiful thing, especially with some power on tap. They're also 1-piece as opposed to an assembly. That's why everything went to them by '73 with the exception of the E-bodies... they wouldn't live another two years anyhow, so why reinvent the wheel? A-bodies also finally got the far-superior spool transmission mount at the same time.

An A-body spool K-member shouldn't be too tough to find, but the B/RB mounts might be a bit pricey. Changing the K is a nearly-complete suspension disassembly/reassembly process, although you can shortcut a lot of it: Don't undo the ball joints, disconnect the strut rods only at the K end, etc. Another option would be to carefully remove the spool tabs from any K-member so equipped and weld them to your existing one after you've removed the biscuit perches. The way to go about that would be to install the engine/transmission assembly with the headers and transmission mount/crossmember installed. Once the trans is bolted in place, the engine is automatically aligned front:rear. At that point, you can raise/lower/jockey the engine around for best exhaust and hood clearances. Rmember, the 440's more than an inch wider than a 400 due to it's .74" taller deck height, so clearance will be at even more of a premium than it already is. Once you find your Goldilocks spot, tack the spool tabs to the K, get the engine out of the way, and weld, reinforcing as necessary (if at all).

Most aftermarket hoses these days are cut-to-fit, with the lower being long at the pump end and the upper rotating around the vertical access with an OE-style water neck. You don't even need to give much thought to aligning those, assuming your hose nipples are on the right ends of the radiator tanks. Yours may not be; from the scant info I could glean in your photos, you appear to have the 1973-up water-pump housing on the 400 (which would explain using 340 hoses). The 440 is almost certainly the '72-back arrangement with the pump inlet on the opposite (driver's) side. Your options at that point are using the complete accessory-drive setup from the 400 on the 440, or changing the radiator to a '67-'69 A-body LA unit. The accessory drive parts interchange only as a complete setup. I believe the crank pulley offset is the same but I should be double-checked on that. You may have to oval one bolt hole on the crank pulley with a rat-tail file or Dremel. It's very common, and I've done this mod a few times on engines that have seen almost 7K. I've never had an issue, so don't worry if it's a mod you have to make.

That last paragraph is just a gentle reminder/PSA that not all big-block engine swaps are a straight-in affair.

 

[b-body-bob]

Rmember, the 440's more than an inch wider than a 400 due to it's .74" taller deck height, so clearance will be at even more of a premium than it already is

That is why I can't even consider using the elephant ears on the 440 - those (mine anyway) have the engine up 3/4-1" already because the oil pump is well above the k-frame mount.



The engine height difference is above the waterpump, so with the ears I'd have the 1" extra from the ears + the 1" extra from the RB.

I'm hoping that the clearance around the engine will be about the same as it is now after the swap.

The spool-type mounts are "fail safe", meaning they can't rip completely loose.

I typically run a solid mount on the driver side and a rubber one on the passenger side. I promise you after driving the car with those elephant ears it will still "ride like a cadillac" even if I used both solid mounts. But the mounts used in the Transdapt kit are "TD 4221; OE pads for 69-71 Dodge D/W-Series truck (225/3.7L) (ie: 2266, 602266)" so it's kind of doubtful I'm going to be able to find a solid version of that.

I'll end up buying/rigging an engine strap or chain to hold it down.

An A-body spool K-member shouldn't be too tough to find, but the B/RB mounts might be a bit pricey.

IIRC the spool mount swap kit (Schumacher only) is about 2x the price of the biscuit mount kit, which is about 2x the price of the Transdapt kit.

I would definitely unbolt the bare minimum if I swap the K-frames. I guess another benefit of the K-frame swap is it puts me in a position to install the engine from the bottom - but I don't have a lift so it seems like the hassle of getting setup to do it that way would offset any ease of installation it provides.

Another option would be to carefully remove the spool tabs from any K-member so equipped and weld them to your existing one after you've removed the biscuit perches.

Yeah, like I would trust my welding enough to do that. I'd have to find a mobile welder to come out so there goes another $100-200 up in smoke. Even if I trusted my welding, all I've got is a 110v Lincoln 140 and it seems like I'd need something more capable. Maybe not. But I'd definitely need more skill.

assuming your hose nipples are on the right ends of the radiator tanks

You're right, I will definitely have to swap the water pump housing. The pulleys and PS brackets *should* swap straight across to the new engine.

As always thanks for the wealth of info. It seems to me that doing a cost(hassle)/benefit analysis I should just stick with what's in there already.

FWIW I brought the wheelbarrow into the garage so you know what that means. I just haven't found the time to tear the roadrunner trans down to figure out why it creeps in neutral. Once that's done I'm going to swap the VB from the Cheetah to the Coan LBA unit for safety's sake. I'll repurpose the trans out of the Duster for use in the roadrunner if I ever get to that point. I can also use most if not all of the throttle pressure linkage on the roadrunner.

 

[b-body-bob]

FWIW Trans-Dapt shipping was $30(!), Schumacher was $20, but TD still ended up 90$ less.

I will give them to Gina as a Christmas gift.

Seriously I may give them to her to give to me if she gets hung up on it.

 

[Dr.Jass]

I will give them to Gina as a Christmas gift.

Seriously I may give them to her to give to me if she gets hung up on it.

Hey, my buddy's girlfriend is getting a grungy, used 4937S AVS carburetor. It's the correct one for her M3 Duster 340, which has the factory ECS. Tough carb to find.

 

[69.5CUDA]

you do NOT need a lift to do the engine in from the bottom...hell i did the 68 fish slant to LA swap in the driveway, all you really need to to is calculate how low you can get the car for "re-bolting" of the kmember, and LIFT the body with your engine hoist using idealy the bumper mounts and a heavy duty strap
if youve got a nice garage floor to do it on you can even put the body on a couple of HF wheel rollers and jack stands(strap the stands to the wheel dolleys and then strap the stands to the body itself if possible) at this point you lift the car as high as you need and just roll it away from the engine...OR you use a wheel dolley and some blocks of wood to support the engine/trans(yes i love the wheel dolleys), lift the body up with the picker and roll the engine/trans assy out on the dolleys...i prefer to block up the engine/trans on wheel dolleys and lower the car onto that setup and unbolt the 4 kmember bolts then lift the body

both ways work VERY well as ive done it a few times now and it makes the whole engine swap job a dream...atleast in an A..since your not fighting with bellhousing bolts you can reach, exhaust stuf fyou cant snake etc....to be honest doing a block swap in an A is hell any other way but going in from the bottom.....and i even drilled trans bolt access holes in my 69s firewall before i found out going out the bottom was sooooo much easier

the ONLY warning ill give you to the whole thing is that re-connecting the steering shaft can be a pain in the ass...do yourself a favor and remove the column entirely OR better yet pop the steering balljoint and leave the whole box hanging off the column in the car....it takes the 1 hellish thing out of the job

 

[b-body-bob]

I don't know if I'm up to that adventure or not. I've seen photos on the web of different ways to do it, similar to your description. I would have to remove the bumper and grille to lift the car with the cherry picker, and work out something to lift it by. I'm unsure how smooth it would go with just a chain or strap around the bumper brackets.

Another option is to install the engine/trans in one piece. Apparently if you raise the rear end of the car up you don't need such an extreme angle on the engine/trans to get it in place. That would mean having a couple of extra people to help guide it in, and that's always a sticking point for me.

I had the steering column out when I put the headers on, so that's not a big deal and I would definitely pull it before starting the swap. With the Schumacher headers there's no exhaust to snake - they're probably as easy or easier than even factory manifolds that way. You just put them on with the engine bolted in.

The problem doing it the old-fashioned way with the engine out the top and the trans out the bottom should be limited to bolting the trans to the engine (other than the usual don't smash the sheetmetal) . It seems like I've seen people mention putting the top bolts in from the engine compartment and the rest you can get to from underneath. I can see part of the bellhousing from above so it seems like that would work but I'm not sure.

I will hunt down those photos again.

 

[b-body-bob]

I just realized that thanks to the elephant ears, I have to pull the engine out the top, then drop the k-frame. Hooray for extra work.

 

[b-body-bob]

I studied this some.

Right now I'm thinking I need to buy/build something like this 24 in. x 16 in. 1000 lb. Capacity Solid Deck Hardwood Dolly Add wood to the deck around the k-frame so it is held in place - IOW, if I turn the dolly the k-frame turns with it.

I've got a rolling trans jack so I don't need anything additional to hold up the transmission.

I need to build a U-shaped lifting jig out of 1/4" angle - pull the bumper brackets and bolt this in their place. Use the center piece to lift from - it should be out in front of the car a little to avoid removing anything else and to give some room under the car. Bolt the side pieces on so the L is toward the bottom so I can put the center piece underneath that with the L facing up. Drill and bolt the 3 pieces of angle together.

Before re-assembling the car I should take the UCAs off the spindle at the UBJ, because it is a hassle to get them bolted back to the body with the weight of the spindle, brakes, etc hanging from them.

Cut pieces of all thread to help aligning the bolt holes between the body and K-frame. Need a minimum of two - one for diagonal corners. Put those in the body.

Use the lifting jig to pick the car up, and roll the engine/trans/kframe under it Let it down slowly using the all thread for alignment. Once it's close enough, put the car on jackstands, move the cherry picker from the lifting jig to the engine, and use it to lift the assembly into place against the frame rails. Bolt it all together and reassemble all the stuff that had to be removed to start with.

It might be beneficial to build the k-frame dolly up some to reduce the distance I have to pick it up to mate to the car.

It seems simple enough just thinking about it, but nothing ever is.

If I can get it done by spring, I will be happy. Knowing me, I will probably still be thinking about it then

It seems like the hard part will be getting the existing engine/trans/k-frame out of it to begin with.

 

[69.5CUDA]

uhh that sounds like a whole ton more work than required
yes you can lift the tail of the car and do a full unit pull...atleast on a LA..its how i used to do it..and so long as you have a GOOD tilter its not terrible

if youd like to go out the bottom simplified
jack up the car and loosen the k member DO NOT remove it remove 1 bolt all the way so you know the length put it back in half way and pull all of them to roughly half way
remove LCS, tbars and strut rod and box or column..honestly whats 6 more bolts of pulling he UCA and shocks
lower car onto the k member on the 2 wheel dolleys with some 2x6 to support the kmembers shape
all of this is done with a jack to this point
remove the 4 k frame bolts
jack body up from the frame rail just behind the k member driver side
use the forward k member bolts as your lifting point to lift the body with a engine hoist..OR continue to floor jack side to side on the front floor rails...jack stands and block forms for the jacks are a must in this route

as far as re-alignment of the k member, your over thinking it...with the wheel dolleys you just wiggle it around till it aligns with 1 hole put a bolt in and then wiggle it for all the rest, DO NOT tighten any of them beyond a half way in till all 4 are in

 

[Dr.Jass]

I studied this some.

Before re-assembling the car I should take the UCAs off the spindle at the UBJ, because it is a hassle to get them bolted back to the body with the weight of the spindle, brakes, etc hanging from them.

I wouldn't mess with any ball joints. In fact, I wouldn't even touch the upper control arms.

Here's how we fast-tracked it when I was 16 or so: Remove torsion bars. Disconnect strut-rod ends and sway bar links (if present) from lower control arms, and disconnect outer tie rod ends from the steering arms. Separate lower control arms from K-member, leaving them connected to the ball joints/knuckles. Disconnect steering box from column. Drop K-member with strut rods and steering gear/linkage intact.

We didn't even take the engine out.

Once it's out, check the lower control arm stud tubes for cracking at the welds. It's more common than you think. If you find any cracks, drill-stop them, grind the crack and re-weld. Your welder is more than enough for any welding job you'll find on your car. The wheel rack I built for my garage is made from steel 3-4x thicker than any non-cast, non-forged metal on a Mopar. My 110V Lincoln (converted to MIG) made excellent welds with plenty of penetration. Crank the power up on heavier gauges and play with the wire speed. You probably won't even need the highest power setting for the K-member--that's all sheetmetal, including the engine perches.

as far as re-alignment of the k member, your over thinking it...with the wheel dolleys you just wiggle it around till it aligns with 1 hole put a bolt in and then wiggle it for all the rest, DO NOT tighten any of them beyond a half way in till all 4 are in

The K-member uses specific shouldered bolts that correctly locate it. Once you've got two started, simply snugging them will perfectly align the K-member to the other two bolt holes. It's a surprisingly precise arrangement.