My 71 Duster work in progress

[b-body-bob]

I found a couple of washers on the back of a cluster I should've tossed years ago.

Re-tested the speedo and it's 10 off at 1500 RPM, 5 off at the 450 RPM level. Hard to say how much the drill contributes to that, but it is what it is. If I need accuracy there's always GPS.

 

[69.5CUDA]

without an rpm guage from say HF to verify the rpm its hard to be sure,

you can even use a tiny bit of solvent on the rotating parts, personaly wont use anything stronger than rubbing alch unless shits really gummed up, SOME were oiled some were not, best guess on the oiled ones is that its just something like a 3in1, the ones i fully dissasemble i just blast the rotationals with carb clean and re-oil

 

[69.5CUDA]

and docs right on a hardware store gromet...if your hell bent on it being a T shape you just shave one end off the gromet, and btw not all speedo's even have said rubber, ive found many over the years simply bolted in un insulated..not just mopar but ford gm toyota mercedes alfa...and yet ive seen some tach drives that were insulated...i think its more about keeping the vibrational noise out of the cluster more than anything

 

[Dr.Jass]

This is what they look like, used on e-bay:

Well, then... I'll just leave the camera in the garage for the time being.

btw not all speedo's even have said rubber, ive found many over the years simply bolted in un insulated..not just mopar but ford gm toyota mercedes alfa...

I don't ever recall seeing one that did not have rubber mounting grommets when a plastic cable end was OE @ the speedometer, meaning any '64-ish Mopar on which I've worked (I never did a damned thing with the '61 Plymouth). All of those also used a plastic gear in the transmission, meaning the inner cable could ground through the cluster while the outer jacket was grounded at the transmission.

I know a lot of older cars ('50s-back for sure) had a threaded speedometer fitting, so the jacket would've been grounded at either end. I've never had one of those clusters apart to see if there were any kind of insulators in the speedometer mounting.

 

[69.5CUDA]

actualy your right in that atleast on the mopars, any unit with the threaded end wasnt useualy insulated, tho some were(trucks/vans)...but you get into especialy forgien stuff youll find plastic ends and the speedo just bolted into a metal casing into a metal dash

as far as 40/50/60s stuff i dont know that ive ever seen any isolation inside the "cluster" tho useualy that old they were more of a speedo unit than a cluster....

again i honestly think its more about "noise" than anything..in theory imagine say a ralley cluster being a giant "bell" for a speedo cable..its also why i think they went away from the bolt on to the plastic coupler to shunt some noise...the speedo cluster in some 50s stuff can be pretty loud as its just that cable rattling round in the shaft into an echo box

dodge trucks are a great example here, up till body change from 71 to 72 all speedo units were relitively small and stayed bolt on cables, come 72 the speedo cluster/dash assy got MASSIVE and instantly went plastic..tho...i cant remember if the speedo actualy has rubbers on it

 

[b-body-bob]

On the advice of she who wants that car put into storage so I can work on the kid's car, I visited advanced and autozone to get 8 158 bulbs for the cluster and one 1891 for the glovebox light. It cost 2x as much as buying an all in one kit and waiting, but I asked, she answered, I obeyed.

I went ahead and took the other seat out and dug in under the dash and untangled more of the mess and ran a wire from the lighter that had already been cut and spliced. It's better now. Oh and I also dug out a red/white trace wire that was cut and stripped like there was some intention to connect it to something. I did not find what that something was, which is sort of a concern that I need to sort out.

I do have some rubbing alcohol out there in a small spray bottle so I'll consider dripping some into the cable inlet. I've also got a little puffer tube of graphite somewhere around here that I'm yet to find.

Gonna test the lights in the cluster next to be sure the new bulbs are good. I already rang out all the pins and grounds on the PCB. And look for that tube of graphite.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Bulbs are very expensive at Advance/AutoZone/O'Reilly for Joe-off-the-street ("walk-in). It's true of most of their parts, actually. That's part of the reason they can give such a huge, uh, "discount" if you order online and pick it up rather than just walk in the door. I had a customer bitch a couple weeks ago that O'Reilly charged her almost $8 for a 3157NA... after I'd just sold her one for $1.19. My walk-in price on four Moog ball joints for an '05 Silverado 2500HD was $125 less than theirs. No, I did not miss a decimal point. Eight 151s and an 1891 would've returned change from a fiver.

A 14ga red wire w/tracer feeds the fuse panel for the courtesy/tail lamp circuits. It comes from a junction with the black side of the ammeter wire (12g, from alternator). That junction also feeds:

• Horn relay (violet 16g at relay)
• Headlamp switch (black 16g w/tracer at switch); likely feeds 18g orange dash illumination circuit via switch
• Courtesy (dome) lamps (18g pink at lamp)
• Hazard flasher (also 18g pink, at flasher)
• Tail lamps (18g pink again, at the headlamp switch; likely includes all running lamps but I'm not sure)
• Cigarette lighter (16g red, at lighter)
• Ignition switch (12g red at ignition switch and 8-pin disconnect in harness)
• The battery itself (12g black at Cavity P on the bulkhead disconnect)

Mind you, the ammeter side of that junction comes straight from the output stud of the alternator via Cavity P. That m eans it's also direct to the battery via the ammeter and fusible link, which is the only "fuse" in that entire circuit other than the one for the courtesy & tail lamps. It's pretty critical that you fix that. If you don't have running lights or dome/tail lamps there's your problem; it may have been the cluster illumination issue. It should be as "easy" as finding the other end of that wire and connecting the two, but Lord knows where it is or where it went.

I realize that time is of the essence at the moment, but the cable is not related to the speedometer issue. Blowing some graphite in there is a good idea, for sure, but rubbing alcohol into the cable inlet won't accomplish anything (it won't get past the square speedometer-cable socket). Because you moved the needle on its shaft--unless I read wrong--the speedometer will always read at a fixed error, which will be exacerbated by the inherent mechanical inaccuracy. If you GPS the thing, my guess is that adjusting the needle to read correctly will return you to the "stuck at 9MPH" condition. I think it's a spring issue and not simply solved. With millions of those cars littering junkyards and folks' back 40s, repairing the existing speedometer probably isn't worth it. For the same reason, I can't imagine why OER reproduced it, but anyhow... I'd suggest just replacing the speedo with a known-working unit. A quick scan of eBay shows a couple of clusters, one Duster and one Valiant, both with what appear to be good speedometers. The speedometer didn't change 1968-'72, so any year in that range will be right. The same eBay search also shows that your needle issue isn't uncommon.

Neither of the clusters I found were particularly inexpensive options for just a speedometer, but for a whole cluster neither is a terrible price. I have a couple of friends who are swap-meet guys; they're constantly picking up older Mopars and parting them. They're also generally very reasonable in terms of price because they're also enthusiasts. If you want to get in touch with them let me know. They're probably way cheaper than the jackal that wanted $300 for the grille.

 

[b-body-bob]

I realize that time is of the essence at the moment, but the cable is not related to the speedometer issue. Blowing some graphite in there is a good idea, for sure, but rubbing alcohol into the cable inlet won't accomplish anything (it won't get past the square speedometer-cable socket).

Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't intending to lube the cable, so it would've been fruitless.

With millions of those cars littering junkyards and folks' back 40s, repairing the existing speedometer probably isn't worth it. For the same reason, I can't imagine why OER reproduced it, but anyhow... I'd suggest just replacing the speedo with a known-working unit. A quick scan of eBay shows a couple of clusters, one Duster and one Valiant, both with what appear to be good speedometers. The speedometer didn't change 1968-'72, so any year in that range will be right. The same eBay search also shows that your needle issue isn't uncommon.

Mine looked good too until I hooked the cable up and turned it. I'd probably end up in the same boat with a used one. At least I'm confident mine is in good enough working order to not fly apart. After 50 years, everything is worn out, which is why OER reproduced it. I'm not inclined to spend any more money on it at this point.

The best part of hitting two stores is I got two defective bulbs, and since they had exactly TWO cards each, neither one can replace them. So I've got to drive to the next nearest place which isn't all that near to begin with but such is life.

The red/white wire is an odd one. I haven't gotten back to it, but it was staring at me right above the radio through the gap in the dashboard that's normally hidden by the dash pad that is currently removed. I just looked at it for a second and it looked like it came out of a plug at the heater but didn't spend time on it right then. I just pulled it to the outside so it wouldn't be forgotten. For sure a bare red wire in a DC system is no bueno.

Of course my concern isn't the wire I found, it's the possibly other hot end that's worried me But, all the things you listed off that run off the red/white tracer wire work. I printed all the wiring diagrams from the chassis manual so it won't stay a mystery for long.

 

[b-body-bob]

It's not on the official wiring diagram.

 

[69.5CUDA]

only a few things in a dash i can think of that would be red with a tracer, clock option, cig lighter, flasher, radio and wipers, anything heater related is heavier gauge

 

[Dr.Jass]

It's not on the official wiring diagram.

View attachment 23047

No it doesn't... I did notice the 12V+ wire for the radio is red with a tracer, and it's right in that neighborhood. The radio plug has 3 wires (duh), one of which feeds the backup lamps (the 18g white). The orange is obviously for the radio's illumination. It's hard to tell exactly which wire the red/tracer wire is paired with at the blower switch from your photo. I'm guessing it's the black/tracer, which should be 12V+ as well. The wires at the switch are different colors in the FSMs: light green, dark green, and black. The diagram shows the blower switch having an integral jumper harness--'70 & '72 show the same thing. This seems to be the case in real life as well:



So, unsurprisingly, it looks as if you've discovered some more bodgery in your wiring. Parts from a different year or model? It looks vaguely E-body/truck based on the connector at your switch. Regardless, I wonder if your hanging wire was supposed to feed the OE radio power, although connecting it to the power source for an electric motor seems guaranteed to introduce noise.

Mine looked good too until I hooked the cable up and turned it. I'd probably end up in the same boat with a used one. At least I'm confident mine is in good enough working order to not fly apart. After 50 years, everything is worn out, which is why OER reproduced it. I'm not inclined to spend any more money on it at this point.

The speedo in Agnes works great, and it's a couple years older than yours. Most of them do. I doubt you'd end up with another bad one. I'm not saying you should necessarily replace it right now, but it's one of those little things that add up to dissatisfaction.
I'll bet very few guys are inclined to spend $300+ on a non-Rallye speedometer for an A-body. I expect it's the same case as the '72-up Challenger grille that Year One originally had repopped--they have a pallet of 'em they can't give away, nor can anyone else. That's a much-rarer item; the problem is that it's just never broken (I have three good ones). My friend at AMD tells me the A-body parts have never sold anywhere near expectations, so they have no desire nor intention to create tooling for any new parts... "Still too many of 'em out there in the fields." OER is still in the process of discovering that.

I get the frustration of "good enough" all too well. You've been working on the car all year and it just keeps revealing new issues. Apparently that's supposed to be the fun part. If it's time for the car to hit storage for the winter, maybe that's just the break you need to hit it again refreshed in spring. Some time away from the repeated frustration is probably a good thing (Agnes sat for more than a year at one point). Getting everything worked out takes time and money. There were a bunch of unexpected expenditures on my Valiant because if everything didn't work as-designed it would bother me. I'm several decades removed from my 17-year-old "good enough" self. I'm a couple thousand over budget on a car fully intended to be a piece of crap. But, everything functions (except the engine ) including the clutch safety switch the car shouldn't even have. Look at it this way: all the little detail shit you fix now (meaning prior to it hitting the road, not tomorrow afternoon) will be out of the way when you decide to address the drivetrain.

 

[69.5CUDA]

those lil things add up FAST when your in a its minor i can live with it...take a break and come back fresh

better done right as much as you can find the first run thru than to skip n halfass only to have to spend the time a second go round to do it right....im finding alot of that on the lloyd in another form....the form of, i dont want a cage i dont need a cage it will be fine...now im caging changin major member work and going thru re-doing an assload of work..cutting out weeks and months of work cause its in the way and has to change for the cage i still dont want

 

[b-body-bob]

No it doesn't... I did notice the 12V+ wire for the radio is red with a tracer, and it's right in that neighborhood.

I found the radio plug laying near the bottom of the dash. It is uncut to the tape so at least one end of it's OK.

I ripped all the radio wiring out at one point and the abandoned red with tracer could've been a result.

My big frustration isn't the good enough, it's more that I've put the car together and taken it apart more than once. Right now I'm sort of in analysis paralysis state thanks to that freaking red wire.

Once I get the cluster and seats back in, it starts, moves, and stops. I've got a bottle of sta-bil ready to dump in it so it can be put away once I clear out space for it. I've got a collection of old mowers and appliances in the basement that need to be reorganized for that car to fit.. Every spring just enough stuff gets moved out to make it a PITA in the fall putting it back.

 

[b-body-bob]

I finally got around to putting the cluster and glove box back in. Yes I ran a separate ground wire from one of the grounding screws of the PCB.

I noticed something that was kind of weird. Both my turn signals work, but the RF doesn't work with the 4-ways. If it's more than just a bulb, it can wait but has to be fixed for the safety inspection. Seems unlikely to be a bulb since the turn signals all work. I was on my way out of the garage so I didn't check the parking light on that side,

 

[69.5CUDA]

since i know your fiddlin with the dash ill toss this in here

fairly sure that if you have the turn stalk in any position but center it will fowl the 4way IE if youve got it in left one side wont work ditto for right the 4way only works as it should if its at rest

 

[b-body-bob]

since i know your fiddlin with the dash ill toss this in here

fairly sure that if you have the turn stalk in any position but center it will fowl the 4way IE if youve got it in left one side wont work ditto for right the 4way only works as it should if its at rest

Here's what I just did.

Checked the 4-ways. Seemed like the front bulb that wasn't blinking has changed sides. But I'm old so maybe not. It was the LF bulb this time.

Checked the turn signals. They all work.
Checked the 4-ways, one still not blinking.
Turned on the headlights, still not blinking.
I kept turning the 4-ways off and on in this process too.

Then I had a brainstorm and thought, what will happen if I turn on the turn signal on the side that doesn't blink for the 4-way, then turn on the 4-way. Would it keep flashing or would it stop? So I did it, starting with no flashing, then adding the turn signal, then switching on the 4-ways. This time I had all 4 flashing. Then I turned off the turn signal, and they kept flashing. Then I turned the 4-ways off and back on, and all positions are still flashing.

Now I know the secret combination in case it stops working again.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Check the ground wires on the turn signals. If they're not there now, they should be bolted to the core support. I had a couple of strange lighting issues (including no park lamps with the headlights on) that I solved by Scotch-Briting the loops on the core-support end of the ground wires.

As an aside, the negative battery cable should have a small ground wire, around 10 ga. That should be anchored to the core support as well.

 

[Dr.Jass]

My big frustration isn't the good enough, it's more that I've put the car together and taken it apart more than once. Right now I'm sort of in analysis paralysis state thanks to that freaking red wire.

I have definitely been there. As I mentioned, there were times when Agnes sat for quite some time just so I could rejuvenate my desire to even think about it again.

I've got a collection of old mowers and appliances in the basement that need to be reorganized for that car to fit.. Every spring just enough stuff gets moved out to make it a PITA in the fall putting it back.

I had no idea you lived in my garage.

Actually, I've had a similar issue, except of course the shit in my way is engines, 4-speeds, etc. Regardless, enough is enough. I've got to get it organized in there and stop just jamming more parts in any and every blank spot I can find. There would be a lot of stuff doing time in my trailer right now if it were still here.

 

[b-body-bob]

Yeah the grille came with the turn signal ground wires.

I don't know what happened, but am just glad the 4-ways are working now. When I first tried switching on the turn signal for the non flashing side, my thought was "here's a way I can fake my way through the inspection"

Last night was the first time I'd ever turned the 4-ways on.

 

[b-body-bob]

I got the 3310 carb today. It's going to need some work but it was cheap and I've got at least one carb out there for parts. It looks like it's all there from the outside, but it seems like there's something wrong with the baseplate because the butterflies don't snap back shut. Hopefully it's just something like the spring has slipped off. It might not make it on the car until next season though.

The double-pumper die hards will argue otherwise, but the car will run better with the smaller vacuum secondary carb on it.