1981 LeBaron coupe - from the ground up.
- Thread starter Dr.Jass
- Start date
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
OK, several years ago I stripped the factory paint out of the engine bay of this car in one night. I'm on my third night now, and haven't even gotten one inner fender fully stripped... a real testament to the quality of Dupli-Color paint. Keep in mind, the first go-round I had no air tools or compressor, and the entire engine bay was shot with rattle cans in the color I'd previously chosen... now I've got all kinds of good stuff and I can't get this friggin' paint off!! :doh:
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
Lots done last night... though not all the paint is yet stripped, I finished cleaning the important parts where I needed to weld the factory seams. I started welding all the seams in the LH inner fender, door frame, and the LH rear K-member mount. :dance: The only seam I didn't finish was the pinchweld between the door frame and firewall... I got started but realized I still have some seam sealer to contend with in that area. Today I'll strip the last of that seam sealer out and finish that weld, and hopefully put in the couple of small patches needed on the firewall. Then out comes the flap wheel to grind away all the monkeyed-up extra weld. :doh: Hopefully I'll be able to lay down some Chassis Saver this afternoon.
I didn't take pics of last night's work. If you'd like to see what it looks like, go back and look at the pics from the RH side in a mirror.
I will get shots of new progress, though, such as the patches I'll have to make... more chopping up of the LeBaron's original hood.
It was a nice distraction from reality. I lost track of time and ended up being out there far longer than I'd planned. Of course the dog showed her appreciation of being left outside that long by digging what appears to be an impact crater from a Volkswagen-sized meteorite. :doh:
I didn't take pics of last night's work. If you'd like to see what it looks like, go back and look at the pics from the RH side in a mirror.
I will get shots of new progress, though, such as the patches I'll have to make... more chopping up of the LeBaron's original hood.It was a nice distraction from reality. I lost track of time and ended up being out there far longer than I'd planned. Of course the dog showed her appreciation of being left outside that long by digging what appears to be an impact crater from a Volkswagen-sized meteorite. :doh:
RUSTY Cuda
In over my head!
Might be a dumb question, but I'm good at that anyway, I'm getting the impression that your welding all the factory seams solid, may I ask why? or correct my impression! :huh: Rich.
71ChargerRT
Well-known member
Been a while since I checked out the thread Doc, coming along nicely, and I LOVE that color!!! If I wasn't going to take my Durango and beat the balls off it through the mud and woods I'd change it from the old Flame red to that color!
You've inspired me Doc, once I get it back home I'm going to break out my little welder and start working on the rock sliders, and maybe start kicking around ideas for the front and rear bumpers.
You've inspired me Doc, once I get it back home I'm going to break out my little welder and start working on the rock sliders, and maybe start kicking around ideas for the front and rear bumpers.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
I've got it on jackstands sitting under the main load-bearing pickup points of the suspension, level front to rear. The doors close like they always did, so I'm sure it's pretty damned square. That's one of the reasons the doors never came off yet... they will, though.
Between all the welding and the solid-aluminum K-member mounts, that front end should be stiffer than a wedding dick. :dance:
I'll likely weld more seams in some strategic flex points in other places for the same reasons, but I'm not welding the whole freakin' car. I haven't got that much patience!
Between all the welding and the solid-aluminum K-member mounts, that front end should be stiffer than a wedding dick. :dance:
I'll likely weld more seams in some strategic flex points in other places for the same reasons, but I'm not welding the whole freakin' car. I haven't got that much patience!
restoman
The paint fumes have cleared so I'm
Solid welding all the factory seams really won't do a whole lot to strengthen the structure, in fact, it may weaken it some. Too much heat in too small an area is not a good thing.
Unless you're going for a custom, seamless look, I'd be thinking it's a huge waste of time. Those factory spot welds, puny looking as they are, really give all the strength and rigidity you'll ever need.
Unless you're going for a custom, seamless look, I'd be thinking it's a huge waste of time. Those factory spot welds, puny looking as they are, really give all the strength and rigidity you'll ever need.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
I dunno, Resto... the distance between the factory spot welds is pretty large on this car. I've been careful not to introduce too much heat in one area by doing short distances, then going back and filling in a little at a time. We did this to a '72 Scamp that was eventually made to look like a '70 Swinger, and the difference in flex was extreme--a jack under the front bumper mount would lock the doors shut beforehand and only lift the one corner of the car. After the welding, the same jack in the same place would lift the car much more evenly and the doors would open and close normally in any position. Custom frame connectors stiffened it even more, and I've got the 2"x3" box-section tubing for that job sitting on my porch.
Some of these spot welds are 2" or more apart, the panel overlap is pretty huge, and there's a lot of panels making up the front end of this car. As you've said before, Chrysler build quality of the late '70s/early '80s! Looking at the inner fenders, I can tell you the stamping dies were worn right out by the time this car made it to the assembly line; many of the spot-welded panels have enormous gaps between welds that I've had to hammer back into place in order to effectively weld 'em together. It's ugly... and the Imperial's one year newer on the same dies! :doh:
Some of these spot welds are 2" or more apart, the panel overlap is pretty huge, and there's a lot of panels making up the front end of this car. As you've said before, Chrysler build quality of the late '70s/early '80s! Looking at the inner fenders, I can tell you the stamping dies were worn right out by the time this car made it to the assembly line; many of the spot-welded panels have enormous gaps between welds that I've had to hammer back into place in order to effectively weld 'em together. It's ugly... and the Imperial's one year newer on the same dies! :doh:
restoman
The paint fumes have cleared so I'm
I forgot you're working on an 80s car.:doh:
Weld away then. Sounds like you've got the basics down pat, keeping the heat to a minimum.
For the record though, welding along an edge will weaken the steel considerably. The welds stay good, it's the steel that weakens. Ever notice a pro-built trailer, or truck chassis? Stitch welding is stronger than solid welding.
Trust me, over the years I've seen a lot of failed weld joints, and the majority of them were not factory spot welds.
The way you're doing it will definately allow you to smooth out the factory ugliness without fear of a seam mapping through, but I'd still be hesitant to solid weld too much. Maybe take a good spot-weld drill, like a Roto-Broach, and plug weld the seams?
Weld away then. Sounds like you've got the basics down pat, keeping the heat to a minimum.
For the record though, welding along an edge will weaken the steel considerably. The welds stay good, it's the steel that weakens. Ever notice a pro-built trailer, or truck chassis? Stitch welding is stronger than solid welding.
Trust me, over the years I've seen a lot of failed weld joints, and the majority of them were not factory spot welds.
The way you're doing it will definately allow you to smooth out the factory ugliness without fear of a seam mapping through, but I'd still be hesitant to solid weld too much. Maybe take a good spot-weld drill, like a Roto-Broach, and plug weld the seams?
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
Uh... it's a little late now, Resto. I've already welded it solid. I haven't done the core-support seams yet, though, so maybe I'll take that approach up there. I have a very-nice spot-weld cutter, brand-new in the package. I can't even remember why I bought it.
See, this is why I'm going over the top on an '81 LeBaron. I'll learn from experience on a car that while not worthless will never give me a true return on investment other than the knowledge gained. It's worth that to me... hell, I'm sitting on nearly 9 grand in parts for this thing! :doh: If the car is gorgeous and runs exceptionally strong, I'll get what... $4,500 for it? So I lose my ass but gain an education. Education is priceless... I'll take the hit to learn. Everything done to this car is being done by me... OK, Stretch is sandblasting the spindles and caliper brackets but I now have the equipment to do that myself.
Oh, by the way: I bought a truly-cheap-shit siphon-feed gun with a 2.0 tip to shoot that 4:1 Super Build. My thinking was that if I can get a spray pattern with which I can work from that pile I'll be OK. I was hoping to get to that point last night, but the power went out shortly after I'd finished my laundry and the wind went out of my sails by the time it came back. Honest to God, the walk-in retail price on that gun is $24.99. If I can't make it work, I'll use it to shoot solvents or Chassis Saver. It cost me roughly 1/6 the cost of a 2.0 or 2.2mm tip for one of the LPH-300s so if the Super Build trashes the gun but I can make it work, I'll just buy another gun. :dance:
I really appreciate your input, Restoman... I probably should have asked for it sooner, though. :doh:
I've already welded it solid. I haven't done the core-support seams yet, though, so maybe I'll take that approach up there. I have a very-nice spot-weld cutter, brand-new in the package. I can't even remember why I bought it.See, this is why I'm going over the top on an '81 LeBaron. I'll learn from experience on a car that while not worthless will never give me a true return on investment other than the knowledge gained. It's worth that to me... hell, I'm sitting on nearly 9 grand in parts for this thing! :doh: If the car is gorgeous and runs exceptionally strong, I'll get what... $4,500 for it? So I lose my ass but gain an education. Education is priceless... I'll take the hit to learn. Everything done to this car is being done by me... OK, Stretch is sandblasting the spindles and caliper brackets but I now have the equipment to do that myself.
Oh, by the way: I bought a truly-cheap-shit siphon-feed gun with a 2.0 tip to shoot that 4:1 Super Build. My thinking was that if I can get a spray pattern with which I can work from that pile I'll be OK. I was hoping to get to that point last night, but the power went out shortly after I'd finished my laundry and the wind went out of my sails by the time it came back. Honest to God, the walk-in retail price on that gun is $24.99.
If I can't make it work, I'll use it to shoot solvents or Chassis Saver. It cost me roughly 1/6 the cost of a 2.0 or 2.2mm tip for one of the LPH-300s so if the Super Build trashes the gun but I can make it work, I'll just buy another gun. :dance:I really appreciate your input, Restoman... I probably should have asked for it sooner, though. :doh:
69.5CUDA
Blah Blah Blah
tell that to porsche LOL
actualy your right about heat..and penitration..theres a few tricks ive found on this one..drilling holes and plugging them, cutting notches, back cutting 1 panel , rolling the edge over then welding the edge..theres actualy quite a few great ways to make it work and VERY well at that.....its where you skip welding them that will screw you..or in the case of a firewall seem not welding it on the indise of the car as well cause you now have a "rip" joint a weld at the end of a wishbone
restoman
The paint fumes have cleared so I'm
No problem Doc. I have an opinion on everything, just ask.
What you're doing to this car looks ok to me, just supplying some food for thought. I can't help it. When it comes to bodywork, I like to show off. :shifty:
That's the kind of primer gun that gives an excellent lesson on what not to buy later when you've got the experience. :doh: For primer it should do well. Can that Super Build be cut with anything, maybe a good lacquer thinner? Only if the gun has difficulty spraying should you even consider thinning, as it reduces the film build accordingly, but when you've got a cup full of primer and can't get it out of the gun, desperate times call for desperate measures, know what I mean?
One trick - use the biggest air line connectors you can get, as well as a 3/8" I.D. air hose. The more air you get to the gun, the better the chances of it spraying like you expect.
What you're doing to this car looks ok to me, just supplying some food for thought. I can't help it. When it comes to bodywork, I like to show off. :shifty:
That's the kind of primer gun that gives an excellent lesson on what not to buy later when you've got the experience. :doh: For primer it should do well. Can that Super Build be cut with anything, maybe a good lacquer thinner? Only if the gun has difficulty spraying should you even consider thinning, as it reduces the film build accordingly, but when you've got a cup full of primer and can't get it out of the gun, desperate times call for desperate measures, know what I mean?
One trick - use the biggest air line connectors you can get, as well as a 3/8" I.D. air hose. The more air you get to the gun, the better the chances of it spraying like you expect.
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
Hey, the more you show off, the more I learn. The best lessons are learned the hard way, but mistakes avoided due to solid advice is even better.
My hose is ½" ID. :shifty: I made that upgrade when I got the go-to-hell Snap-On impact; the compressor still can't run for long it but I feel better.
On the cheap-ass gun, my thinking was twofold: A) I got an acceptable spray pattern out of a similarly-priced touch-up gun with a little practice and learning the best distance from the panel, and B) worst-case scenario it'll make a fancy weed-killer dispenser. Seriously, I think I can learn the gun and make it work for the Super Build, and for what it cost me the high gun wear of shooting something with that high a build it's ultimately more economical to just replace the whole gun. If it makes it through this job, I'll likely buy something a little better to do it, but finances between tools and materials are tight right now and I want to shoot paint on the damned car!
My hose is ½" ID. :shifty: I made that upgrade when I got the go-to-hell Snap-On impact; the compressor still can't run for long it but I feel better.
On the cheap-ass gun, my thinking was twofold: A) I got an acceptable spray pattern out of a similarly-priced touch-up gun with a little practice and learning the best distance from the panel, and B) worst-case scenario it'll make a fancy weed-killer dispenser. Seriously, I think I can learn the gun and make it work for the Super Build, and for what it cost me the high gun wear of shooting something with that high a build it's ultimately more economical to just replace the whole gun. If it makes it through this job, I'll likely buy something a little better to do it, but finances between tools and materials are tight right now and I want to shoot paint on the damned car!
restoman
The paint fumes have cleared so I'm
You might be surprised by the cheap-ass gun.
One of my buddies has painted a dozen or so cars in his home made booth using a $30 HVLP SATA rip-off from Princess Auto. I daresay, his later efforts would rival anything put out by a competant body shop. It's not so much the tools or the spray gun as it is the tool behind the spray gun.
Back in my siphon feed days, I got some decent jobs using a peice of crap Sears gun. 'Course, that gun made me appreciate a better gun all the more.:toot:
One of my buddies has painted a dozen or so cars in his home made booth using a $30 HVLP SATA rip-off from Princess Auto. I daresay, his later efforts would rival anything put out by a competant body shop. It's not so much the tools or the spray gun as it is the tool behind the spray gun.
Back in my siphon feed days, I got some decent jobs using a peice of crap Sears gun. 'Course, that gun made me appreciate a better gun all the more.:toot:
Dr.Jass
Pastor of Muppets
Oh, Kirk... I don't think you have any idea. POR15 or Chassis Saver won't beat a gun anywhere nearly as bad as a primer with 6-8mil DFT. Something with that kind of build has enough solids that essentially the next step up would be shooting sand through it. :doh: I would have bought a decent primer gun, but it was about $60 more.