My 71 Duster work in progress

[b-body-bob]

I remember there's room for a 1/4" ratchet on them from when I earned a living wrenching if you've got the smaller head and back then they were. Mostly OEM at that point. Jeez I'm old.

The straps I'm using now came from NAPA. Right now the bolt gets to the point where it's too close to the strap to get the boxed end on it, then shortly after that there's not enough room to turn the open end either. For all I know it's planned that way to keep meatheads like me from snapping them off.

 

[b-body-bob]

48.96" for the 4-speed

I searched back through this novel and found I posted that I also have a 49-5/8" rough measurement on a second driveshaft that came with. I don't remember having two with Mopar sized u-joints, I thought it was the one that is in it now and the one that came in it with the ford 9". Maybe there were two taht came with and the one that was installed. This might be a stroke of luck because I guarantee you I didn't measure it precisely enough to say that's not a 49" 4-speed shaft.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Doing a little bit of digging on vehicles I know had 9" axles, I don't see where Ford used 7260 or 7290 U-joints. That being said, it's possible if you figure out what joint fits what you believe was the 9" shaft, there may be an adapter joint ("offset cross") available. I have a pretty comprehensive list of such joints here at work if we need to go down that road.

Adapter joints generally aren't as strong, but that's OK--if you must have one joint weaker than the other, you definitely want it to be the rear. They're not weak by any means; most of the ones I sell are for mud trucks with 36"-44" Super Swamper Boggers--sometimes "cut"--running in wet red clay. Gnarly stuff. They don't break often.

 

[b-body-bob]

I have no idea what happened to the Ford driveshaft if this long one isn't it and I don't think it is because there's not a u-joint in that rear position.



Those are lined up on the one end at the welds, and maybe you can see it, maybe not, but the other end on the shorter one pretty much lines right up with where the longer one necks down. The end without a u-joint is sized for a 7260. I've got a strong hunch that is the driveshaft I need for the 4-speed.

It measured about 49-1/2 to 49-5/8 C-t-C and the trans yoke on both those is about 2" shorter than the spare one I've got shoved in the back of the 4-speed right now.

 

[Dr.Jass]

It measured about 49-1/2 to 49-5/8 C-t-C and the trans yoke on both those is about 2" shorter than the spare one I've got shoved in the back of the 4-speed right now.

I'm not sure which shaft you have there, because the only 49.50" driveshaft in the catalog is for a Dana-equipped B-body (the '71-up B-body) which would have 7290 joints. The closest I can find in the catalog would be a for an A230 3-speed, at 49.27". 49.85" would be for a Challenger with an A904. There's nothing in between other than the Dana part.

You really won't know until you have the car put together enough to test-fit the shaft. You want about at least 1/2" clearance between the output seal's boot (always use a booted seal) and the yoke arms with the car sitting on its weight.

The yoke may tell the story. The 26-spline A904/3-speed manual yoke will not fit any long-tail 4-speed, nor any A-body 4-speed (other than an overdrive) built after 1968, to my knowledge. Supposedly, all '68-up A-body 4-speeds had 30-spline outputs like their longer bretheren, but I sold Stretch a rebuilt '68 transmission several years ago that had a 26-spline output.

 

[b-body-bob]

The yoke may tell the story

I'll try to plug it into the 4-speed and see what happens. The transmission is a 73 with 30 spline output. I've used the yoke that's in it before to plug up a 727.

 

[Dr.Jass]

I mean the yokes on the driveshafts. If one of those shafts is from a 3-speed or A904, the yoke currently on it won't fit the transmission.

Luckily for you, driveshafts for your application are easy. '67-up Valiants, Barracudas (even the E-bodies), Dusters and Scamps used the same 108" wheelbase, although I think the Valiant and/or Scamp may have gone to 111" in '74. I too need a driveshaft, for my '71 Challenger, and guess what? The Challenger is the only 110" wheelbase Mopar of the slip-yoke era. I literally have to find a Challenger driveshaft... or drop another ~$500 on Custom Driveshaft #2.

 

[b-body-bob]

One thing that has me thinking they might both be original mopar shafts is the way the 727 shorter shaft seems to be the same shaft as the 4-speed longer shaft, but cut off right at the taper.

I sure wish I could remember what happened to that Ford driveshaft though. I'm pretty sure I took photos of them all 3 laying side by side if I could find those.

 

[Dr.Jass]

The factory A727 shaft is listed as 3" diameter, while the A833 shaft is 2-3/4". If anything, your arrangement is backward.

I wouldn't suggest considering yourself home free until you've got the car assembled and sitting on its wheels and can check yoke clearance to the boot. 1/2" is considered minimal. .700" is a lot of difference when it comes to bottoming out in the transmission. Still, even it if doesn't have enough clearance, driveshafts for that application are falling from the sky.

 

[b-body-bob]

I think they're both the same size other than the tapered end but I'm not sure. Maybe they just specified the smallest diameter? It looks like if you cut the long one off at the taper you'd have the same shaft.

Yeah nothing to do for this but wait. I mostly just wanted to see what I had ahead of me so I dug it out.

 

[b-body-bob]

I think they're both the same size other than the tapered end

I looked again this AM and I don't think that's the case, the tapered end is the same diameter as the longer shaft.

 

[b-body-bob]

Somehow I ended up with the rear slider too far off the pop-uppy thing again. I might have put it in 2 gears at once before that, also, again. That travel's limited by the forks to where it can't happen in practice, right?

Also is there any way to check the bearings without disassembling the whole thing? I can do that too but would prefer not to since that would involve lifting it up on a bench.

I've whittled away at the parts list until I'm just under 1k before shipping to have everything I need if there's nothing wrong in the transmission.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Stop moving shit around inside the transmission, Bob. Yes, it's fun, but then you push the slider too far and the keys try to pop out. You accomplish nothing in doing so; a dynamic problem can only be found in a dynamic situation. Moving the sliders manually does not give any indication on how the transmission will shift in the car.

Put it in neutral and leave it there. The next time you move them, it should be done via the shifter.

If the transmission (technically the side cover) is a '71-up unit, it's not possible for it to go into two gears at once unless the interlock setup is disabled or broken on the side cover. It's plausible on a '70-down transmission/side cover, but pretty near impossible with a shifter connected. As far as over-shifting and hurting forks, synchros, keys, etc.--no, there's no inbuilt physical limiter in the transmission to keep a gorilla from continuing to exert force on something that's stopped moving. That's why Hurst's aftermarket (and some '65-down Mopar) shifters had stop bolts. I'm a big fan of 'em, not because I'm a gorilla but because I like the feel of a positive stop.

There's no way of which I'm aware to visually check the condition of the rear bearing without disassembly. The front can be seen reasonably well with the bearing retainer removed. As far as "checking" you can hold the input shaft solid and rotate the output shaft, trying to feel for resistance or grittiness. You can revese the process to check the front. Both require the transmission to be in neutral. Remember neutral? Such a wonderful place. Everything stays put.

 

[b-body-bob]

Hey, I'm finalizing the part list and had to figure out if I had a standard clutch pedal or not, since the car was born with an A/T.



There you can see the OC spring pins, and to the left of that, a reinforcing bracket behind the far pin running toward the dashboard. As far as I've been able to figure out, that bracket is only on the HD pedals, that have bearings instead of bushings.

pictures of pedal assemblies 340 vs. others

Happy happy.

 

[b-body-bob]

Brewer's confirmed it and recommended taking it apart before ordering parts because there is often more bad than just the bearings and bushings.

The column, master cylinder, and front seat are out so if there's ever a good time to disassemble the clutch and brake pedal assembly, I guess this is it.

 

[74DartSport]

My car had a creak under the dash when I pushed the clutch in. The u shaped bracket the steering column attaches to is cracked on the left side above where the clutch pedal bracket attaches. Check yours. I’ll try to get a pic tonight.

 

[b-body-bob]

Disassembling the pedals with the dash in place isn't a task to take lightly.

You have to remove that side brace to get the clutch pedal out. Somehow that ended up turned and caught on the pedal/OC pin and I like to never got that thing out of there.

After all that, there's really nothing wrong with it. The bearings are dry, the bushings aren't worn out and the whole thing was kind of "gummy" from old grease I guess but otherwise it would've been fine to just leave it alone.

Has anyone used one of these and can explain how they install?

CS-PPA CLUTCH SAFTEY SWITCH LOOP & PUSH PIN A-BODY GOOD USED


Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists

Worst case I'll call Brewer's and ask before ordering.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Disassembling the pedals with the dash in place isn't a task to take lightly.

You have to remove that side brace to get the clutch pedal out. Somehow that ended up turned and caught on the pedal/OC pin and I like to never got that thing out of there.

After all that, there's really nothing wrong with it. The bearings are dry, the bushings aren't worn out and the whole thing was kind of "gummy" from old grease I guess but otherwise it would've been fine to just leave it alone.

It's a hell of a lot easier to do what you did by just dropping the whole pedal assembly out. Well, OK, it's just as easy with the pedals in the car, assuming the entire dash structure has been removed, but few ever reach that state of disassembly. The only part of pedal service I prefer to do in the car is removing the OC spring. With the pedals on the bench/floor, that can be exciting.

Has anyone used one of these and can explain how they install?

CS-PPA CLUTCH SAFTEY SWITCH LOOP & PUSH PIN A-BODY GOOD USED
View attachment 26905

Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists

Worst case I'll call Brewer's and ask before ordering.

First and foremost: Do you have a clutch safety switch? If so do you intend to use it? If you answered no to the first question, you might want to price out a switch before you get too excited. If you answered yes to both, you'd do well to test it now before you get too invested.

That link connects the actuating arm of the switch to the pedal. The straight end goes through the hole on the arm, while the loop end gets pinned to the pedal using the supplied push pin. This can be installed in-car without too much difficulty. Be forewarned: Those links do not suffer bending well. They'd just as soon break as flex. It's strong wire, but it seems to be hardened. I found one in the garage when I was doing mine, and thought, "I'll just shorten it with a li'l bend here and another there." *SNAP* "OK, I'll just make one from a brake-shoe spring," which was neither more enjoyable nor more forgiving.

When the pedal is down, it grounds the switch wire through the switch body, completing the ground circuit for the starter relay. Prior to 1970, when people were apparently a little smarter, Chryslers didn't even have clutch safety switches. There wasn't even a provision for it on the starter relay (manual and automatic used different relays). If you don't want to bother with the nonsense, you can simply ground that terminal on the starter relay to its mounting bracket. Of course, the car will attempt to start with the clutch engaged if you don't have the presence of mind to push the pedal.

Curiously, despite being an automatic my '69 Valiant had a manual-trans starter relay in it. I can only assume it was replaced at some point, but I suppose it's possible the factory installed the wrong one and just left the NSS ground wire hanging. Of course, moron that I am, I found an NOS clutch switch and installed it, only to later discover the car wouldn't have had one originally anyhow. I also discovered my pedals already had a clutch switch on them, since they came from a later car. I will not go through all this again on the '68; it can stay as-is.

 

[b-body-bob]

Yes I know how crazy the prices are on the original clutch switches. They've been that way since back when I had that converted blue 4-speed gTx. I always figured that was because they either got tossed when they were in someone's way or maybe even because sidestepping the pedal and kicking the clutch to speed shift isn't good for them.

I was just thinking that if those things are easy to install and work OK it might not be a bad thing. Also, I found what was left of one on the existing pedal. The push pin and part of the wire were still there. I thought the plastic push pin part was a bad photo of a switch. My mistake.

Another PITA about taking it apart in place is that clip holding the pin in the brake pedal (5-27-6 above). This one had a 1/4" bolt and nut through it and the main bracket that I got to fight with. I didn't look close at the time but the nut has a rounded head like a nylock nut and I had to turn and turn and turn it with the wrench/ratchet all the way to the bloody end.

Really I always complain and no offense but you'd have to be crazy to take the pedal assembly out to disassemble it, at least on an A-body. It helped that I already had everything out of the way. I've even got the wiring harness separated from the firewall. Just don't do what I did and end up with the side bracket turned sideways and jammed in place.

I cleaned all the needle bearings without losing any of them, and the brake pedal bushings seem OK but there is one of the clutch pedal bearing seals missing. They are just "dense felt washers" so I might be able to make something that will work instead of paying for parts I don't need. Brewer's Performance - Mopar A833 4-Speed Transmission and Component Specialists

There's a little bit of wear on the clutch rod pin too, but not enough to replace it.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Yes I know how crazy the prices are on the original clutch switches. They've been that way since back when I had that converted blue 4-speed gTx. I always figured that was because they either got tossed when they were in someone's way or maybe even because sidestepping the pedal and kicking the clutch to speed shift isn't good for them.

I was just thinking that if those things are easy to install and work OK it might not be a bad thing. Also, I found what was left of one on the existing pedal. The push pin and part of the wire were still there. I thought the plastic push pin part was a bad photo of a switch. My mistake.

The prices have been crazy on the switches for B/E-bodies forever. I paid ~$100 shipped for an NOS A-body part when I did the '69. There were a dozen of 'em on eBay at the time. Those days are long gone. I may have a spare lying around, what-fer I have a couple of sets of spare pedals (as do a couple of people I know). There's also the switch that came off the car, which worked but the wire broke. I'm certain a guy could solder it back in place. I'll have a look-see at what I've got.

Another PITA about taking it apart in place is that clip holding the pin in the brake pedal (5-27-6 above). This one had a 1/4" bolt and nut through it and the main bracket that I got to fight with. I didn't look close at the time but the nut has a rounded head like a nylock nut and I had to turn and turn and turn it with the wrench/ratchet all the way to the bloody end.

In the brake-pedal illustration, they show that assembly as a bolt. However, on a spare set of pedals I have in the garage, it's definitely a nut like you describe.

Really I always complain and no offense but you'd have to be crazy to take the pedal assembly out to disassemble it, at least on an A-body. It helped that I already had everything out of the way. I've even got the wiring harness separated from the firewall. Just don't do what I did and end up with the side bracket turned sideways and jammed in place.

With the column out, it's literally six fasteners, seven if you count the brake pedal pushrod (which I've left on the pedal more than once). The whole show drops right out. I can't speak to power brakes because I don't have any () but I'm sure it's still one bolt to disconnect it from the pedal.

I cleaned all the needle bearings without losing any of them, and the brake pedal bushings seem OK but there is one of the clutch pedal bearing seals missing. They are just "dense felt washers" so I might be able to make something that will work instead of paying for parts I don't need.

Got an old shoe? Take it back from the dog for a minute and make one out of leather. Give it back to the dog; the dog will wonder what they did wrong otherwise.