First American 5 speed?

Fishy

Fishy

Omnipotent Seaweasel
Ok so 69 and I were talking today about tranny options for a 5 speed in a Mopar muscle car. Then we got to wondering what American car was the first to have a 5 speed manual, rear wheel drive, V8. Thinking either Mustang or Corvette? :hmmm:
 
and were not talking some obscure early 20s or 30s something OR any of the "imports" like k-cars/colts etc.."mainstream" cars...tho referances to others are always cool
 
The '82 Mustang GT was available with a 5-speed. That's the earliest instance of which I can think, since if memory serves the 4+3 trans didn't appear in the 'Vette until '84. The Doug Nash 5-speed (now known as a Richmond) was a service replacement for the always-blown 4+3 trans.

Damned shame, really... when that 4+3 trans worked, it made sub-200HP cars feel like rockets.
 
so the early mudstain gt was it eh?...cant belivei got that one right....it was just a stab in thedark....so the vegas and pintos were 4spds?
 
No, I'm pretty-sure all manual-trans Vegas and Pintos were all 4-speeds (maybe even 3-speeds early on). Also, he did specify RWD and V8, but even the manual-trans FWDers had 4-speeds well into the '80s. I don't think the Mopar front-drivers got a 5-speed until at least 1984, and the Ford Escort didn't get one until at least '85 (Mom had an '84 with a 4-speed) if not '86 or '87.

Also, I was mistaken. Apparently my friend's '82 Mustang GT would have been originally built with the miserable Ford SROD 4-speed trans, as the Camaro and Mustang both got the 5-speed option in 1983. So the trans was swapped somewhere along the lines in the 13 years between its build and my friend acquiring the car.

So, the winner is... wait for it... wait for it...

The 1982 AMC Spirit/Concord/Eagle triplets!! The boys from Kenosha were ahead of the curve by one year, also using it in the CJ7 and CJ8 that year. Imagine that. I can't find anything US built earlier than that with 5 forward speeds other than large trucks.
 
Upon further thinking, though, neither the AMCs nor the Jeep were available with V8s, though. V8 AMCs (other than the full-size trucks) went dod after '79.

So, if the V8 is the qualifier, we're back to the '83 Mustang GT/Mercury Capri and same-year Camaro/Trans-Am.
 
Kinda figured it had to be a "Pony car". :hmmm: My initial guesses were Corvette, Camaro or Mustang.
 
Corvettes aren't ponycars, but yes--the Mustang/Capri and Camaro/Firebird cabal beat the Corvette to market with a more-than-four-speed manual by two years. And, as noted above, the Corvette 4+3 trans was brilliant when it worked... but it rarely did for long. Apparently it was made of saltine crackers and Kleenex held together with peanut butter, spit, and a prayer.
 
Of course, the AMCs, Fords, and GMs all used the Borg-Warner T-5, which you can break by sneezing near it... unless you have the "World Class" T-5, which you have to sneeze directly upon to break. Unless you spend more than the cost of a brand-new complete T-5 to put G-force internals in it, you're dealing with junk. I'd like to put a 5-speed in the Imperial; the T-5 was never a consideration due to its inherent weakness.
 
Would it even be worth it to use a 5'r with the 6's becoming plentiful? That way you could run a steeper rear and still maintain some semblance of MPG and drivability
 
71ChargerRT said:
Would it even be worth it to use a 5'r with the 6's becoming plentiful? That way you could run a steeper rear and still maintain some semblance of MPG and drivability
Click to expand...
I'm not opposed to running a 6 speed. ;) I was just curious what the first American 5 speed was in a RWD V8 car.
 
Personally, my opinion is that anything beyond a 5-speed is extraneous in a musclecar. The only reason manufacturers are going with 6, 7, and even 8-speed transmissions is because it's the only way to keep engines in their "sweet spot", which gets to be rather peaky with multivalve engines, variable valve timing, etc. The automotive press bashed GM for a long time for only having a 4-speed auto behind the venerable 3.8L pushrod six, but that engine was a 2-valve pushrod motor with a broad torque band and it really didn't need more than 4 gears. Three lower gears, direct fourth, and an overdrive are plenty for a 2-valve musclecar engine. A 6-speed merely introduces an extra gear that, at highway speeds, lugs the engine and probably hurts fuel economy. 6th gear in most T56 transmissions is a second overdrive with a .5:1 final drive. You might make use of it at Bonneville, but at highway speeds it's probably not optimal for many of the cars with which we play. This isn't the case with the Richmond 6-speed, but it's got a pretty-sad torque rating.

My '73 Challenger got better fuel mileage with 4.10 gears and a 4-speed (around 17MPG) than my '73 Charger got with 3.23s and an awfulmatic (14MPG on a good day). Both cars were 340s, but the Challenger had the more-aggressive engine (early higher-compression pistons, '68 4-speed cam, etc.). A lot of factors come into play, like the fact that the Challenger was lighter, had slightly-larger tires, and the clutch doesn't slip like a converter, but even so the RPM difference at 60MPH was 800+ RPM between the two.

To be honest, I think the limitation lies within the carburetor and distributor more than anything. There's only so much one can do with metering rods, jets, power valves, advance canisters etc. and a lot of my theory flies right out the window with programmable MPFI and computer-controlled, where the fuel curve at cruise can be set lean with a ton of advance while the same curves at full throttle can be downright gnarly, all from the comfort of your laptop... hence the reason the Imperial will be MPFI with distributorless ignition, all controlled by the MegaSquirt I literally built on my kitchen table.
 
i thought the "worlds" t5 was better than that...well youve mmade me feel even better about trading that worlds t5 for the lloyd
 
but doc..with that same .5 od a 5:33 gear on the hwy would actualy come back down to reality and become something acceptable right?
 
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