My 71 Duster work in progress

[b-body-bob]

I stuck it on my HF transmission jack and now I can wheel it around where ever I want. I just have to be careful not to tip it too far on one side or the other. It's got the wheels on it now so it can't fall but will probably take them back off before I put it under the car and on the springs.

I've run into a couple of small things. I need to make brake lines. No problem I can buy lines locally and have a flare kit and know how to use it. I also realized I don't have any U-joint straps or bolts. The 9" had a u-bolt setup. So I have to find those. Finally, I don't think I'm going to use those shock plates. They look to be bent, and there's a crack that is probably related to that.

 

[Dr.Jass]

I'd donate shock plates to the cause if I had extras, but I have exactly the number I need and as you stated, they're a bit dear for what they are... on the Valiant, I ended up using Allstar shock plates, which were pretty inexpensive, but they have some weird-ass shock-mount tube welded to them that wouldn't accept a factory-style shock (bein' roundy-round parts I expect they're for rod-end shocks). That meant I had to cut the tubes off and source studs, so in the long run I didn't save a heck of a lot of money--probably lost it if I count the cutting/grinding labor. However, they're nice beefy brand-new pieces which inspire more confidence than rusty junkyard parts.

4½" angle grinder with a 1/16" cutoff wheel would make quick work of those welds, if'n you want to avoid snide commentary (which I'd be happy to provide--the commentary, that is ).

 

[Dr.Jass]

Oh, the U-joints strap/bolt kits are common parts-store stuff, and cheap to boot. They're the same between the large & small U-joints, and are probably still coming on production vehicles... but any RWD Chrysler product from the '80s is a sure-fire application to give the yay-hoo at the parts store. Bring like, I dunno, six bucks with you.

I bought stainless repro lines for two of my cars, and while they didn't work ideally with the inboard springs on Agnes, they still look a ton better than I could've done. The only real trick is sourcing the right year, as the tee location moved around a bit. For the little they cost on eBay these days, it was worth not doing the work myself.

 

[b-body-bob]

If the straps are the same 7260 vs 7290 then I probably have a couple floating around here somewhere. The bolts should just be grade 8 1/4 with a lock washer so I can pick those up anywhere. Or like you said, hit the parts store. I noticed that the Mancini site lists the straps for those two U-joints as separate parts.

With the one plate being bent I may just use those to get the rear end in place and the springs hanging, then hunt down a better set somewhere. I've got a couple of 7-1/4" b-body plates on a parts car but those won't work. The local Mopar yard has taken to keeping everything for himself, if it's usable he doesn't want to sell it.

I found a selector on Dr Diff's site that specs the brake lines by the drum to drum width, so I have to take the wheels back off again to check that. I priced them out at $45 but there should be other sources as well, maybe cheaper.

We had a Canadian light dusting of snow here last night, aka a WV snowpocalypse and it's cold AF out there today so I've been watching TV instead of working on the car.

 

[b-body-bob]

The hits just keep coming. I went out pulled the wheels and drums off and noticed the thing has two passenger side backing plates on it. Fk yeah. At least the parking brake hardware is missing too.

I've got a b-body BBP 7-1/4 outside and supposedly I can just drill a 5th hole in the backing plate and use it, but that car should have 1-3/4" brakes on it, so I don't think it will work with the 2-1/2" brakes that are on the new rear end.

 

[Dr.Jass]

A B-body with 1¾" brakes? I'd never heard of such a thing. I thought the 1¾" brakes were exclusively A-body. Then again, I've never seen a 7¼" axle under a B-body either.

So, I toins to the pahts catalogs... ask a simple question, Jass spends a f__king hour in OE cataloguing.

Apparently, the 7¼ was a 6-cylinder thing only, and stopped at the end of '68 with the advent of the 8¼" axle, although the narrow shoes were used on 8¾ axles (but not the 8¼?!) through '70. They use the same backing plates as the A-body so no, you can't use them (it). The park-brake lever/pin assemblies from the narrow brakes will work, but the strut bar will not. The backing plate and strut bars you need are common junkyard fare on anything with 10" brakes, 2" or 2½" shoes, including earlier C-bodies (and probably trucks; I don't have those books) with the oddball 2" width, 8¼"/9¼" trucks into the 1990s including the 6-lug Dakota axles, and '73-up B/E body 7¼"--the axle made a brief reappearance in larger cars; but the narrow brakes died with the A-body 8¾, being exclusive to it in '71-'72.

Of course, backing plates are a bit of a pain to remove on anything but an 8¾, but they're around if'n the yard fella will let you disassemble an axle. If you need some, I have several pair, in both 10" and 11" varieties. The strut bars? I'm sure I've got those, but no idea where to even look at the moment. I do have a complete set of 10x2½" brakes--shoes, drums, parking-brake cables, the works--but I'd rather not start parting that set.

If you're interested in losing those oddball brakes, let me know... I have more A-body axles than brakes. I don't need the drums (can't use 'em) but everything else is of interest.

 

[b-body-bob]

That 7-1/4" rear is in a 69 Belvedere /6. I didn't expect it either but the mopar parts book I have lists it with 1-3/4" brakes.

I wish I could just drill a hole in the damned backing plate but from looking that isn't going to work either because it's flat on that side and the side with the hole for the cable is stamped at an angle.

I've got some brake parts that came with a road runner we had at one time but I don't know if I've got the spreader bar. I don't remember if it had 10 or 11 inch brakes on it either.

I don't know what I'm going to end up doing but right now I'm just going to stick the assembly under the car and move on.

 

[Dr.Jass]

It depends on what that Road Runner had up front. Disc-brake HP B-bodies had 10" drums out back, while 4-wheel drum cars had 11" all around. That was true of any model B or E-body when equipped with an HP engine, at least in the sales information. Order a 383HP in a Belvedere and the 11" drums were a mandatory upgrade (unless you were cool enough to order discs). Since I plan to use 11" rear drums on the Imperial and Challenger, my 10" stuff is just, uh, future reference? I refuse to admit hoarding.

The offset of the backing plates is the bigger issue. Even if you got that backing plate drilled and installed, the drum wouldn't seat. It would be hard against the backing plate before the mounting face touched axle flange. That's why safely* converting an A-body axle to the 4½" bolt pattern requires a complete brake swap: Both the axle-shaft "stickout" distance and the backing-plate offset is different. You need the complete assemblies from the larger car. That's why I'd like to get those brakes should the time come to be rid of them. I'd like to have another complete 4"-pattern 8¾ lying around to keep with my complete 340 A-body front suspension/disc-brake setup, just in case a '67-'68 Barracuda follows me home one day and Mom says I can keep it.

After all this discussion and research, it occurs to me: Are we missing the obvious solution here? I may be wrong, but it seems to me the only difference in the L & R backing plates was the location of the cable hole. It's stamped so that hole can be on either side. In fact, I've seen later backing plates drilled in both locations. Could not a patriotic, upstanding citizen such as yourself not simply drill the damned hole on the opposite side and be good to go? A rubber or steel plug could be put in the original hole to keep tumbleweeds, marmots, and plastic straws out of your brakes. It's the parking brake; chances are being off by a matter of thousandths is not going to be a huge issue. That leaves you, at the moment, wanting only for a parking-brake strut. That part you could get at Wal-Mart, if you work fast in the parking lot.

If nothing else, this particular issue of yours has reminded me that I need to get the parking brake sorted on the Valiant. I still have a bracket to weld to the floor and cables to run. It being a 4-speed, I'd much prefer having a working parking brake to simply leaving it in gear. 'Tis true of all my vehicles, because they're all manuals.

*Redrilling A-body axle shafts and drums to 4½" is NOT safe.

 

[b-body-bob]

Boy do I feel like a dumbass. Actually like a blind old man. That backing plate is fine. In my defense, I said fk it and quit looking due to aggravation.

I found a spreader bar and the e-brake lever, but I think the spreader bar is for 9" brakes. It looks too short to me.

 

[Dr.Jass]

RE: Your shock plates.

I'd simply cut off the slapper bars and weld up that crack after making sure the plate is straight. There's virtually no load on those parts other than what's imparted by the U-bolts, and sufficiently welded they'll las forever. I'd run 'em, but I'm cheap like that.

 

[b-body-bob]

It depends on what that Road Runner had up front. Disc-brake HP B-bodies had 10" drums out back, while 4-wheel drum cars had 11" all around. That was true of any model B or E-body when equipped with an HP engine, at least in the sales information. Order a 383HP in a Belvedere and the 11" drums were a mandatory upgrade (unless you were cool enough to order discs). Since I plan to use 11" rear drums on the Imperial and Challenger, my 10" stuff is just, uh, future reference? I refuse to admit hoarding.

The road runner had drum brakes so they would've been 11"

I found some other parts, though, see above.

The offset of the backing plates is the bigger issue. Even if you got that backing plate drilled and installed, the drum wouldn't seat. It would be hard against the backing plate before the mounting face touched axle flange. That's why safely* converting an A-body axle to the 4½" bolt pattern requires a complete brake swap: Both the axle-shaft "stickout" distance and the backing-plate offset is different. You need the complete assemblies from the larger car. That's why I'd like to get those brakes should the time come to be rid of them. I'd like to have another complete 4"-pattern 8¾ lying around to keep with my complete 340 A-body front suspension/disc-brake setup, just in case a '67-'68 Barracuda follows me home one day and Mom says I can keep it.

Are you talking about the brakes on my parts car? Now is as good of a time as any to get rid of them, other than paying for shipping. Just say so if you want them and when I cut it the rest of the way ff to haul it away, they're yours. (It needs to go soon, I've cut so much metal out of it that it's collapsed.)

After all this discussion and research, it occurs to me: Are we missing the obvious solution here? I may be wrong, but it seems to me the only difference in the L & R backing plates was the location of the cable hole. It's stamped so that hole can be on either side. In fact, I've seen later backing plates drilled in both locations. Could not a patriotic, upstanding citizen such as yourself not simply drill the damned hole on the opposite side and be good to go? A rubber or steel plug could be put in the original hole to keep tumbleweeds, marmots, and plastic straws out of your brakes. It's the parking brake; chances are being off by a matter of thousandths is not going to be a huge issue. That leaves you, at the moment, wanting only for a parking-brake strut. That part you could get at Wal-Mart, if you work fast in the parking lot.

See post above. I am a pitiful blind old man these days. Really, my eyesight is shot, but I guess I didn't look closely, was aggravated, and didn't look twice until today.

If nothing else, this particular issue of yours has reminded me that I need to get the parking brake sorted on the Valiant. I still have a bracket to weld to the floor and cables to run. It being a 4-speed, I'd much prefer having a working parking brake to simply leaving it in gear. 'Tis true of all my vehicles, because they're all manuals.

*Redrilling A-body axle shafts and drums to 4½" is NOT safe.

In WV, chances are good I'm parking on a hill, and with an auto, that can be worse than a manual. It sucks to have to YANK the shifter out of park after the weight of the car and gravity have conspired against you and the parking pawl.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Am I blind? I don't see a park-brake lever in there.

The strut does look a bit short to me, but I haven't worked on drum brakes in several years. The last ones I did were for the Valiant, here in the kitchen... not a recommended procedure. It's way easier with the backing plates on the car.

I think I'm right on drilling a backing plate for a cable, though apparently it's no longer an issue. There's a set on eBay right now that are double-drilled.

It's been so long since I parked an auto on a hill (20+ years now) that I've completely forgotten about the whole "brute force to disengage the parking pawl" bit. A friend who lives in largely-flAtlanta uses his parking brake every time, on every car, just so they continue to work. Even on stick cars, a working parking brake is a rarety here in salt country where he came of age.

 

[b-body-bob]

RE: Your shock plates.

I'd simply cut off the slapper bars and weld up that crack after making sure the plate is straight. There's virtually no load on those parts other than what's imparted by the U-bolts, and sufficiently welded they'll las forever. I'd run 'em, but I'm cheap like that.

The shock bolt/stud is what looks to be bent, so I expect that means the "ear" on the plate is bent. Too many years of too bad WV roads with air shocks could've caused that I guess. I'm still going to cut those slappers off and use them though if they pass post-cutup inspection.

 

[Dr.Jass]

Are you talking about the brakes on my parts car? Now is as good of a time as any to get rid of them, other than paying for shipping. Just say so if you want them and when I cut it the rest of the way ff to haul it away, they're yours. (It needs to go soon, I've cut so much metal out of it that it's collapsed.)

That's a damned-good parts car right there. You're like an Eskimo: Use everything, waste little.

Yes, I mean the 10"x1¾" parts off the 7¼" axle. Give me a number on shipping (sans drums) and I'll either shoot you a check/money order or you can send me a PayPal invoice. I don't have a PayPal account but if you send an invoice I can pay it.

 

[b-body-bob]

Am I blind? I don't see a park-brake lever in there.

The lever's not in there, just the strut. I found a couple though, and a half pack of the c-things to put them in.

The strut does look a bit short to me, but I haven't worked on drum brakes in several years. The last ones I did were for the Valiant, here in the kitchen... not a recommended procedure. It's way easier with the backing plates on the car.

They look too short to me. They're not really engaged in the shoes IMO. Eventually I'll pop the 10" struts out of the parts car and see how those do.

It's been so long since I parked an auto on a hill (20+ years now) that I've completely forgotten about the whole "brute force to disengage the parking pawl" bit. A friend who lives in largely-flAtlanta uses his parking brake every time, on every car, just so they continue to work. Even on stick cars, a working parking brake is a rarety here in salt country where he came of age.

The Versailles disc brakes that were on the rear of the car rely on regular use of the parking brake to adjust them. Ford engineering at its best. You either use the parking brake or the pads go out of adjustment. Making it even worse, the set that came on the car didn't have any of the e-brake parts, just the calipers.

 

[b-body-bob]

That's a damned-good parts car right there. You're like an Eskimo: Use everything, waste little.

Yes, I mean the 10"x1¾" parts off the 7¼" axle. Give me a number on shipping (sans drums) and I'll either shoot you a check/money order or you can send me a PayPal invoice. I don't have a PayPal account but if you send an invoice I can pay it.

It's less about using the car up than it is some dumbass cut my A12 all to pieces so I had to. Have you ever removed an inner and outer cowl at the spot welds? A good time was had by all.

I'll pull the brakes and let you know once I get around to cleaning up the yard. The brake struts won't be included though (see above)

 

[Dr.Jass]

It's less about using the car up than it is some dumbass cut my A12 all to pieces so I had to. Have you ever removed an inner and outer cowl at the spot welds? A good time was had by all.

No, but I did change the roof skin & drip rails on my Challenger (180+ spot welds) and a RF frame rail and floors in the Valiant. The Rota-Broach and I still get together and talk about the good ol' days.

The struts from the narrow 7¼" brakes are different than the ones for your new brakes. I can't say they won't work, but I think it's got to do with the offset differences in the shoes/drums/backing plates. Strangely, they're also different than the ones used on the A-bodies, but those I've got from the rotted-out brakes that were on my A-body axle when I got it. First backing plate I'd ever seen rusted completely through... neither a small hole nor an enlargement of an existing hole. The other side was nearly mint?!

 

[Dr.Jass]

Per the parts catalogs:

For those not familiar, with rare exception LH parts are odd-numbered, RH are even-numbered on non-imports into the '80s.

Struts for A-body w/10"x1¾" rear brakes: 2534666 & 667
Struts for B-body w/10"x1¾" rear brakes: 2260423, same part both sides (six-cylinder non-wagon)
Struts for B-body w/10"x2½" rear brakes: 2409823, same part both sides (V8 & six-cylinder wagon)

Strange that the A-body required specific left & right struts, where the B-cars didn't, since the backing plates are the same numbers (2880582 & 583) between A-8¾ and B-7¼. Those backing plates (supposedly) do not fit the A-body 7¼" axle, which used 2880570 & 571. The backing plate is the only different 10" brake part I can find in the two A-body axle applications, and all three 1¾" applications use the same brake shoes. The levers are specific only to each drum diameter and L/R, so any 10" lever works as long as it's correct for its side of the car (2881660 & 661).

Obviously, the B-body drum has a different bolt pattern, so it's a different part number than its A-car equivalent. I have twenty American dollars that says the only difference is the drilling.

Now, assuming that information is correct, the backing plates on your nearly-departed Satellite should have five bolt holes, even though the axle end only has four studs. Since all A-bodies with 10" brakes used the same drum and guts, that leads me to believe the only difference in the A-body 7¼" backing plate is the missing fifth hole... and it's entirely plausible that your Satel-extremely-lite was factory fitted with the A-body four-hole backing plates. It appears everything else would work as intended. If that's the case, then using on a 4"-pattern 8¾ should be as easy as drilling a fifth hole.

For the life of me, I can't imagine why the brake struts are different between the two body styles. Same backing plate, same shoes, same drums but for bolt pattern.

"Be a parts guy," I told myself... "it'll be easy." In fairness, it would've been if I weren't already a car guy.

 

[b-body-bob]

I just came in to check the part number I noticed on one of the struts. 2409823 = perfecto whether it looks right or not.

manciniracing.com says the same as you posted

Parking brake strut levers for 1965-74 B & E-Body and 1973-76 A-Body applications with 10" rear drum brakes. Also used on 1978-79 L'il Red Express Trucks with 10" rear drum brakes. Set includes pair of strut lever springs. Reference Chrysler part number 2409 823.

One set required per vehicle.

That saves me $30.

First backing plate I'd ever seen rusted completely through... neither a small hole nor an enlargement of an existing hole. The other side was nearly mint?!

Maybe it sat alongside a creek or other drainage, one wheel above the water level, the other in the water.

I cut the bars off the shock plates, and sure enough the thing is bent. The end of one strut is bent down about 1/2" or so at the end. I doubt that really matters and it shouldn't be load bearing with normal shocks on it. I'm still grinding on those. I cut away from the plate to avoid cutting through it and I'll grind the welds out.

Now to figure out what to do about the brake lines - make or buy. I'm skeptical that buying a set for a 71 Duster is going to work since the brakes and offset are different. I'm definitely curious why dr. diff's site has a selector that asks for the drum to drum width. It would make more sense to use the between backing plate distance but what do I know.

 

[Dr.Jass]

If the axle is A-body width, the only issue should be the location of the brake-line tee. I looked through my receipts and found that the kit I ordered was for '70-'71 because of the tee location. Apparently there's a '67-'69 location, as well as a '72-only spot. If memory serves, some are right at, or even on, the center section while others are further away. I would suggest looking at the Inline Tube and/or Fine Lines website for application information; there are guys selling the IT stuff on the 'Bay for around $35 shipped... in stainless, no less.

I doubt the backing-plate differences will be much of an issue if any, since I moved my springs inboard and was still able to use the repro lines with a bit of creative tweaking. Had I gotten lines with the wrong tee location, though, I'd have been in a spot.